So this was the result of going second on turn 2:
The raptors engaged the knights, killing all except the WE and one strider. The noise marine BTS was reduced to 1 stand and broken, the t-hawk assault failed by 1 and did not rally for turn 3, the shocker having escaped because of its fearlessness (4 BMs, it did not come back turn 3 either). While the preds did clean out a havoc retinue, on of the ferals made it into my backfield and threatened to get blitz and gun down the last noise marine for BTS. The hell talons got CAP'd by the blades, took three hits, and failed every jink save (I believe the dice added up to one '4')

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Let us playtest like the Greeks of old... You know the ones I mean

BL also own strategy turn 3. With a severe activation count disadvantage, this did not bode well for the EC. The feral in my backfield chased down the last noise marine and got BTS. I was able to deny blitz by marching a chosen back to contest. The preds broke the other feral, which retreated to my side of the table.

This blurry pic is what it looked like at the end of turn 3. I was down 0-1 and barely denied a victory with the chosen. However, the BL won strategy again turn 4, and got that chosen in a crossfire between the two ferals. The battle ended with a convincing BL victory, blitz and BTS to nothing (2-0). It might've been 3-0, but my memory is fading.

Lessons that can be drawn from this battle: Since this is an engagement army, I think this demonstrates the high risk part of high risk/high reward, especially against an opponent with equal or better strategy rating. Despite the knights getting to use their ff MW, and getting their shots in, this again demonstrated that they are far from invulnerable. In order to use their firepower, they have to get danger-close. The t-hawk assault was a clipping assault against a prepped target and still failed. Again, while there's not much precedent for chaos thunderhawks at these stats and price, I'm not overwhelmed by the power of the combo. It definitely shaped the opponent's behavior (see the castle she built in turn 1), but in the long run was not a sure thing in preventing the BL from doing what it wanted.

More testing is always welcome!

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Let us playtest like the Greeks of old... You know the ones I mean

All those pics and not even a close-up of your new Blitz?

From memory, I don't believe the BL Retinue was prepped before you brought down the Shocker Attack Force Delta Pi. It would have made the difference as I think it was a loss by 1 for the Noisemarines. In any case, THawks are actually useful in this list. They're a joke without Fearless in the Red Corsairs list.

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Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Squats 2019-10-17

how come it ended up on 4BMs? surely 2 is enough to break it, then additional BMs are ignored due to it being broken and fearless? unless it still picks them up on flyoff which I'm not sure it does?

this is why fearless thawks without ATSKNF are so good, they can only accumulate 2BMs maximum so will always rally on a 3+ compared to a loyal thawk which, if it survives being broken, will fly off with 4BMs and need 5+ to rally

that's my understanding of the rules from discussion with dptdexys.... not sure if we all play it the same way?

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Just some guy

My hobby/painting threads

Army Forge List Co-ordinator

The max it could accumulate on the ground would be 2BM, ya. But once it disengages it becomes and aircraft again it could take another BM for being shot at or flying off another board edge.

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Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Squats 2019-10-17

makes sense

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Just some guy

My hobby/painting threads

Army Forge List Co-ordinator

Good news everybody!!

EC 4.0 is up on armyforge:

http://traitor-legion.appspot.com/choos ... S_ec_NETEA

Thanks go to kyussinchains and Adam77 for their speedy efforts! Now everyone can build lists to their hearts' content. Please take the list out for a spin and let me know if there are any bugs that need to be corrected.

Keep in mind that fm upgrades are limited to four. I'm told that due to the complexity of the list that there's no practical way to incorporate this limit, so once you've added your three dreadnoughts, replaced a couple CSM with noise marines, and added a stalker and some Havocs, go no further because you've reached your limit on upgrades (for example). The EC are decadent, but not 5+ upgrades decadent

I already know about the following errors:
Labels on the daemon pool, bike retinue, etc. should not have "emperors children" on them
Dreadnought, predator, and land raider should have Emperors children in their unit title
Armored support should be armored company, and have 1 stalker available as an upgrade

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Let us playtest like the Greeks of old... You know the ones I mean

Missed those, will correct today

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Just some guy

My hobby/painting threads

Army Forge List Co-ordinator

actually according to the list in the OP of this thread, the upgrade limit is 4.... so I've limited the stuff that can be easily limited and added a note about the rest.....

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Just some guy

My hobby/painting threads

Army Forge List Co-ordinator

Thanks, you are right. Four upgrades is the limit and I've edited that post accordingly.

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Let us playtest like the Greeks of old... You know the ones I mean

I took the EC out for a long-overdue test last week, this time against bezerkermonkey's DKoK.

Here's what he took:

Incompertus, 3005 POINTS
Death Korps of Krieg (NetEA Tournament Pack 2013)
==================================================

REGIMENTAL HQ [525]
Death Korps Supreme Commander, 19 Death Korps Infantry units, Gorgon Siege Transporters (2 Gorgons)

INFANTRY COMPANY [425]
Death Korps Commander, 19 Death Korps Infantry units, Gorgon Siege Transporters (2 Gorgons)

INFANTRY COMPANY [425]
Death Korps Commander, 19 Death Korps Infantry units, Gorgon Siege Transporters (2 Gorgons)

HEAVY TANK PLATOON [350]
2 Macharius Tanks, Macharius Command Tank

TANK PLATOON [330]
5 Leman Russ Thunderer, Leman Russ Vanquisher

LIGHT SUPPORT BATTERY [200]
20cm of Trenches, 4 Heavy Mortars

LIGHT SUPPORT BATTERY [200]
20cm of Trenches, 4 Heavy Mortars

LIGHT SUPPORT BATTERY [200]
20cm of Trenches, 4 Heavy Mortars

LIGHT SUPPORT BATTERY [200]
20cm of Trenches, 4 Heavy Mortars

THUNDERBOLT FIGHTERS [150]
2 Thunderbolts


I decided to go with a new approach. I returned to the WE-heavy side, but 2/3 of my retinues on foot so they could garrison. I gave them stalkers to improve the AA bubble, and dreads to improve their firepower and shield the stalkers:

Stand and Deliver, 3000 POINTS
Emperor's Children (4.0)
==================================================

SUBJUGATOR TITAN [250]

SUBJUGATOR TITAN [250]

KNIGHT PACK [275]
4 Hell-Strider, Hell-Scourge

HELLBLADE SQUADRON [200]
3 Hellblade Interceptors

RETINUE [425]
6 Chaos Marine units, Chaos Lord, Stalker, 2 Emperors Children Dreadnought, Replace 4 chaos marine units with 4 Noise Marine units

RETINUE [425]
6 Chaos Marine units, Chaos Lord, Stalker, 2 Emperors Children Dreadnought, Replace 4 chaos marine units with 4 Noise Marine units

RETINUE [355]
6 Chaos Marine units, Stalker, Chaos Warlord (Supreme Commander), 3 Rhino

ARMOURED COMPANY [450]
8 Emperors Children Predator, Stalker

CHOSEN [170]
4 Chaos Space Marine Chosen, 2 Rhino, Daemonic Pact

CHOSEN [170]
4 Chaos Space Marine Chosen, 2 Rhino, Daemonic Pact

DAEMON POOL [30]
2 Lesser Daemon

Setup:
The attached pics show the start of the game. Krieg had their mortars dug in along a trench line, ready to shell the chaos forces right away, with a sh*tload of infantry in gorgons ready to steamroll through the remnants. The EC garrisoned two fearless-heavy retinues and a chosen forward, hoping to get to the other side of the board quickly, use their disrupt shots, or at least slow the enemy down.

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Let us playtest like the Greeks of old... You know the ones I mean

Turn 1 was fairly standard, both sides advancing up the board. The garrisoned retinues shaped the Krieg actions at least a little in that the infantry in gorgons started a wide left hook against the EC lines, hoping to take them in the flank. The t-bolts were still able to avoid the stalkers by ground attacking on the fringe of my line.

The knights doubled up and took out a macharius with a hit and a subsequent crit. The macharius company broke a subjugator titan, which remained broken. The artillery caused some casualties but not decisively as the EC won strategy and was able to lay some BMs on a couple of those FMs.

The next three pics show both sides moving up, the middle is of the krieg left hook.

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Let us playtest like the Greeks of old... You know the ones I mean

Turn 2 was when kriegs luck really went downhill. They were able to break the knights and the other subjugator, which stayed broken for turn 3. However, an infantry company failed to break a chosen in an assault and ran away, leaving the regimental HQ (which had marched up so couldn't support) alone. An EC retinue doubled up behind the HQ getting a crossfire with the help of the armored company. The preds then engaged with supporting fire from the retinue and the remnants of the chosen, hacking down all but the commissar. It was... Not pretty.

In the center, most of the arty was broken or suppressed, and the Russ company was broken also.

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Let us playtest like the Greeks of old... You know the ones I mean

Turn 3 saw a continuation of kriegs luck. The EC got BTS by summoning with the weakened chosen and taking out the commissar. A retinue assaulted an mortar battery and took that portion of the trench line. The hell blades wiped out another battery.

Pinned back on his own side with a distinct activation disadvantage, and down 1-0 (BTS) at the end of turn 3, the krieg player called it at that point. See attached pics for the end of battle dispositions.

Thoughts on the list: between the noise marines, dreads, and armored company I fielded a lot of disrupt shots. I specifically asked berzerkermonkey if this felt OP or broken to him and he felt it was not. The play test was skewed a bit by his poor rolling. However, I think that garrison really helps the "in your face" nature of the list. The subjugators and knights were just ok, their 2+ initiative showing later in the game. I'd like to try the questars next, as the cc TK was wasted. I'd also like to try the garrisons in combination with a thunderhawk and see if that is a no brainer.

Of course, more playtesting is always welcome - now even easier with the list up on army builder

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Let us playtest like the Greeks of old... You know the ones I mean

Couple (possibly stupid) questions:

When do you declare what type of lesser daemon you want to summon? ie when you purchase them or when you summon them?

Are the Subjugator's claws meant to be EA+2 as per the UK and Compendium lists? Or is it meant to have only one set now?

Are the Hell Talon's bombs meant to have Ignore Cover ala the BL list?

What happened to the bigger Slaanesh titans?

The Hell Strider is an AV but is in the WE section? They appear to be roughly equivalent to a predator on paper, what's the reasoning behind them being in the WE section with the other two larger knights?

Is it just me or is the Hell Scourge a no brainer? In terms of firepower to cost they are hands down better than the other two, or am I missing something?

Last question (I promise): What needs to happen to get this list up to Approved status?

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