Daemon Prince 3+ RA save anybody?

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It's always had that - it was when it had TK attacks as well that it was absurd.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

@lordotmilk to suggest I'm making dictatorial decisions purely on my own views is ridiculous. Try looking at months of discussion before throwing out accusations.

@ginger the 10-15% overpowered is ridiculous and not born out by any facts

Re: the death wheel. I am under the impression it was a universally popular movce putting it in allies to prevent 3 ferals+3 DW

Everybody had months to put forward their views on units+issues. The change list is what was produced, if you don't like it you should have spoken up much earlier. At this point it is there to test, items that are shown to work in testing will be adopted those that don't will be readdressed. No testing and we stick with the 2012 version.

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www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

One quick question regarding summoning.

If I elect to sacrifice my champion to get a greater daemon can I still roll 2D3 for lesser daemons or are all the summoning points used to get the GD in play?

Unless it's already been decided I"d suggest when the Champion is sacrificed it counts as 6 summoning points and then the 2x d3 rolls are added to this to give the chance to gain lesser daemons along with the greater daemon.

8 Fearless WEs at 3k points. In a very much approved list.

I dont think it's a very strong list, but I do believe it fits in the fluff and it it poses some challenges to play against.

Why is it ok, but not the BL with 6 Fearless WEs (again, as you mentioned, not the best BL list either)?

The design concept of the BL was CSM infantry with SHT support. With the removal of the two SHT from the main list, and the improvement of Daemons (a good thing by all standards), it is becoming a CSM Daemon heavy army with some light WE allies. Really not the same design concept. Please reconsider. It is more than a balance issue that you are touching. It's the whole feel of the list.

Fearless WEs, 2975 POINTS
Steel Legion (NetEA Army Compendium v20120208)
==================================================

REGIMENTAL HQ [550]
Supreme Commander, 12 Infantry, 7 Chimera, Hydra

INFANTRY COMPANY [300]
Commander, 12 Infantry, Hydra

WARHOUND TITAN [275]

WARHOUND TITAN [275]

INFANTRY COMPANY [300]
Commander, 12 Infantry, Hydra

SUPER-HEAVY TANK PLATOON [200]
Baneblade

SUPER-HEAVY TANK PLATOON [200]
Baneblade

SUPER-HEAVY TANK PLATOON [200]
Baneblade

SUPER-HEAVY TANK PLATOON [200]
Baneblade

SUPER-HEAVY TANK PLATOON [200]
Baneblade

WARHOUND TITAN [275]

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"War is not about who is right, but about who is left". - B. Russell

I've never seen the BL design concept as that - where is that from. In my opinion the BL list has had a lot of issues which were covered up by the crutches of MW ferals and multiple WEs. Now those have been removed the list is a bit weak. The daemon, havocs+ structure changes try and address that. I don't see why you would now have to play with daemons

I really think you're getting a bit too focused on the decimator change. Before you could easily fit 4 WEs in a list, now its 3.

I can't see it as a bad thing if an over reliance on WEs is removed. If the list is competitive with none that would be fantastic.

Comparing IG and BL lists isn't very useful.

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www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

I agree that the non-WE part of the list has some issues, and I sincerely applaud the directions of the tests for this (the Helltalon is still an issue though).

But the BL concept (as I understand it) comes from here:

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"War is not about who is right, but about who is left". - B. Russell

So nothing about CSM with WEs as a list concept. All that describes is what WEs the list would have as an option - originally not chaos titans but unique WEs

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www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

Its funny how these things are.

I read it as thee WEs being part of the core of the army, not the alllies section.

I hear what you are saying concerning BL must be viaable without WEs, but so many other lists have WEs on core (SM Landing Craft and Thunderhawks, Guard SHt, Eldar EoV, etc.), and some of them are also fearless.

If there are better lists than WE hvy lists then it should not be such a problem, and if the non-WE lists are not better, perhaps this is an issue of pricing up the core WEs, or Pricing down the alternatives?

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"War is not about who is right, but about who is left". - B. Russell

I really think you're making too big a deal of the changes. Before you had 2-3 slots to choose between terminators/chosen/decimators, now you have 3-4 to choose between titans, decimators and air/space

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www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

Part of the issue with the Black Legion army list is that they didn't have anything like as tight a development process as most other lists. They ended up without a strong central theme and big imbalances and it's taken years of revisions to try and poke them into a better shape.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Well I had played and understood the central theme as a WE heavy groundlsogging CSM force, with the ability for a powerful drop.

The Rhinos, Bikes and raptors were there either to snatch objectives or support the drop.

TBH that's how I have been selling the army to friends when they hesitate on what to collect or play.

Now you seem to say that this was not the focus, or at least that you wish to change it. I actually like that theme...

On the topic of the Helltalon, IC is Tzeentch's special thing on planes. Could we go 3 BP or Disrupt instead? It would allow for less concept redundancy in Chaos aircraft.

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"War is not about who is right, but about who is left". - B. Russell

If your playgroup in CH is self-contained, then why not pick and choose the rules you want? Not being flippant at all, just take NetEA and EpicUK's best and fairest bits and use those. Of course keep participating in this discussion and you can even use your tweaked list's game feedback as a tool to get the changes you feel are right.

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