The only question I have is will Frogbear's version 4.0 be more "kitchen sink with World Eaters added" or stay as he has it. If it stays - going by the poll thread - isn't his list pretty much just the same as my list with just a few differences? I would have thought changing the set up to include different types in different slots. Perhaps different core choices?

Frogbear, will you be adding the bloodgors/daemon engines  back etc and make your list more generic khorne with less focus on the WE?

Frogbear will be using 2.4 as his basis not the 4.0 or 5.0.

Just to clarrify some points:

1. Version 2.4 will be turned into the Khorne Warband List and will have units added back
2. Dobbsy will continue with his World Eater list
3. I will also continue with Version 4 or 5 as my World Eater list - whichever the community votes for

Now that we are gaining parity with unit types and the such, there is only the ideals that really differ between our lists. It is my hope that after a few playtests by both sides, we take up Chroma's suggestion of a 3rd party to convene with us and provide the guidline of what should be in the one list to present to the NetEA under their banner of 'Developmental' or 'Experimental'. This will depend on Dobbsy agreeing to this as well.

In the meantime, I am eager to close off the 'Khorne Warband' list to present to the NetEA as 'Developmental' or 'Experimental'. I think I will need to talk to Zombo and E&C regarding the Bloodgors so as we can get some parity in those stats if required - yes the Bloodgors are making a return!

All of this will also allow me to start work on a Chaos Squat force to while away the late nights.  

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Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

So instead of 2 World Eaters lists we now have 2 World Eaters lists AND a 1 Khorne Warband list?

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Don't forget the 2 Vraks lists as well  

You also have many Ork lists and Eldar to boot. What is the concern?

The Khorne Warband is (for the lack of a better phrase), Khorne's Kitchen Sink. It is a fun list to play and allows people to use the models they otherwise would not

The Two World Eater lists will present their designs in playtests to eventually (I hope) consolidate into a joint effort. As we are agreeing on unit stats, it is effectively twice the playtests (for balance) with different ideals.

Let's not make it more than that shall we.  

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Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

Whoa! So will 4.0/5.0 then be competing with my list? I didn't realise they would be community lists. I just thought they would be a home list.

The whole point of renaming the list to "khorne warband" was so we didn't have competing world eater lists. We're now back in the position of having nothing solved.

There's a big difference between having two vraks lists and two world eater lists. The two vraks lists are very specific about which period of the war they represent, and are very different in style and focus. One is undivided midwar, and one is khorne mid-late war. The two world eater lists are still trying to do the same thing.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

The Vraks list are Chaos Undivided, Khrone and Nurgle. They aren't all dedicated to the same Chaos God.

And i thought your (frogbears) World Eaters list will be turned into the Khorne Warband list and Dobbsys World Eaters list will be THE World Eaters list to end the competition?

Now i'm confused.

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Is competing the right word here?

In the past you have asked to either join the list or run two seperate ones. I am advising that we play with the lists and see how they go.

I am not going to give up the design that has reached this point. I have yet to test out the new initiative rules and the army design which I am still not happy with. How does our development interfere with your list?

I have a playgroup and world wide community happy to support me. I would be stupid not to take advantage of that and take them up on their offers for tests.

Why can't I have a Khorne Warband and a World eater list? In fact, if I choose, I will present and play as many variants as I want. I will also report on them, and if I gain support, why is this an issue? The 'World Eaters' does not belong to anyone in particular - especially if they have not playtested it.

Can't we all just get along?

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Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

If you really insist on going back to having a world eaters list, drop the khorne warband. The only reason anyone was sugesting calling it that was to solve the issue of having 2 WE lists. Having 3 lists doesn't make things better.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

Why can't I present my ideas for a hobby and go with it?

If I can get the games in and report on it and create lists for people to play, what is the essevtial issue? Afterall, I am putting in the effort to test and balance everything that I produce. How many others can say that?

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Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

*facepalm*


That there are two lists called "World Eaters".

They should be merged.
Or one should be renamed.
Or one should be abandoned.
Or another compromise reached.
Just so long as there are no longer two "World Eaters" lists being developed on Tactical Command.


Yes, and the way we have historically "gotten along" on this forum is by gentlemanly agreeing to not cause confusion by compromising using one of the methods I've listed above.




Also, only one of the Vraks lists (Zombos) is Khornate.
Mine is Undivided and features no Khorne units or elements at all.

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I fail to see how I am the one that is to be 'outed' here of continuing a World Eater list.

Without my work and enthusiasm, it would still be V1.1 without a playtest and an army little discussed.

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Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

Totally agree with you E&C

So why not the two lists go along their merry ways for a time (let's say another year), and then come together with all their results at the end of that time and a 3rd part consolidates them based on feedback and playtest data?

That is exactly what I am on about here. What do people honestly think I am doing?

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Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

Over the last couple of days you've presented the list as approved, then stripped out half the units, presented two new directions for the list, renamed the list, then split the list and renamed back. Your ideas seem to be all over the place at the moment.

Of course you're free to do whatever you want, and noone's going to stop you, it's your hobby. We're just making suggestions based on experience of list development.

Five minutes ago all the problems were solved by consolidating unit stats and renaming your list. Now all the problems are back compounded by suddenly throwing another list into the mix.

Just rename your list to "World Eaters Assault Force" or whatever, Dobbsy renames his to "World Eaters Destruction Force" and the problems are once again solved

For example, I'm about to start a varient core sisters of battle list, but I won't be calling it "Ordo Hereticus Task Force" in order not to clash with the existing list.

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

Your posts caused confusion in that they gave off the appearance that you were renaming your list in a gentlemanly manner in order to allow both of you to continue developing your lists harmoniously... now you've "revealed" that you never actually intended anything of the sort.

So we're right back where we were a few days ago, with two "WORLD EATERS" lists.

And everyone is back to saying : "We want you two to find some mutually agreeable manner in which to resolve this problem"


If that is your chosen course, I would prefer a third party consolidate them *now*, rather than wasting a year's playtesting on lists that will then be heavily modified in a year's time in order to face yet another year of playtesting to balance the now-consolidated list.

It's not nice giving up control over an army list you've written... but it is the most appropriate course of action in some circumstances (I did it myself for the Minervan Tank Legion, a very popular army list with many players).

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