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Chaos Squats

 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:06 pm 
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Hi All

Now that I have placed the other two projects on a freeze for playtests, I was going to get back to this project.

I have a list made up already, however I have been reviewing the multiple slave unit ideas and will start to incorporate a few of these.

Current Thoughts on slave unit types:
- slaves : we do not want to be here and we are just cannon fodder
- Levy Troops : We are trained and serve our overlords (whether by choice accepting their lot or due to family held at ransom for service)
- Glatiators / Elites : We revel in fighting expertise. It is all we know. These are your commados

I also want to add the big Chopper (no doubt for use with the Glatiators/Elite)

I have some allied units as well that I have to decide whether I am keeping them in or not (Ork Freebooterz or Khorne renegades).

I will try and get something posted in the next week if I get some more time.

Cheers....

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:23 pm 
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I am looking for some ideas and feedback on the following, so please help if you can:

I am considering tying the Chaos Squats into the old fluff of them having been responsible for many of the 'squarish' Daemon engines that exist (Khorne Engines)

What would people's thoughts be on including the Lord of Battles and the Death Dealer (as a transport) into this list?

Should they be incorporated or should I keep the list totally alien from what exists?

edit: How about the addition of Hellfire cannons also from the LatD list?


Pros:
- People can use their minis that they have
- A nice tie-in to the cult lists
- No need to re-model minis and more likely to have people play the list with minis available (due to more popular lists)


Cons
- None that I can think of other than the list will not have a fully exotic feel due to the tie-in to Daemon Engines
-

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats
PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:36 pm 
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So no Mc'Lovin for the Chaos Squats?

Next level of ideas that I am looking at for the list:

Slave Fodder
A formation of 9 slave fodder units and 3 Task Masters. Slave Fodder are armed with nothing other than explosive collars. Only upgrade being considered are a pack of War Dogs (3 units). Apart from Explosive Collars, this unit will have a new ability titled 'Undisciplined' which at present has the formation removed as a casualty if it breaks during the game for whatever reason.


Levy Slaves
Formation of 8 armed with missile launchers (?). Upgrade available at present will be 'Transport' (a few options available via this upgrade).


Elite Slaves Cache
Formation of 8 Elites (Gladiators). Armed with Assault weapons. Upgrades available are 'Big Mutants' (develop assault version), maybe War Dogs, and/or a Big Chopper (Zigganook) which will have a carrying capacity of 8 (overall regardless), Skimmer, DC 3, RA, and a few guns.


At present Slave units will be available on a 1 for 1 basis with Core units (they form part of the Support allocation), and I am thinking of restricting the purchase of the Slave Fodder formations to 1 for every full 1000 points played.

Probably the best thing about slaves will be the ability to mix and match all those spare minis you have (beastmen, squats, Imp Guard, Orks, etc) to form mixed bases.

Now I am currently re-working some more of the more shooty support options as I do not like many of the options I left when development was halted a few months ago.

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Last edited by frogbear on Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats
PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:38 pm 
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beelzemetz wrote:
@bl: some mesopotamian names would be cool.


Yes. Will place this on the 'to do' list.

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:29 am 
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Oh well, may as well keep this going. Someone may be reading it... :)

I have been reviewing this list over and over again for the past few days, and fixing things that have been nagging me. I think I have reached a point where I can leave it for a few days. Hopefully there will not be anything major when I look at it again.

One of the main concerns is that at present I can field about 16 activations (albiet none of them would be able to shoot). Although this is a concern, I am inclined to leave it for playtests in the future as a SR 3 and Init 2 army may not overwhelm the opponent.

I have at present 3 special rules for the army, 2 of which effect one formation. So that is fine there.

I have incorporated summoning for this list. Rather than summon Daemons through the warp however, Daemons are summoned through the Earth and 'Earth Elementals' are the effect. They will be slightly more expensive, however have a better CC effect. More on that at a later time.

Much of what I am put together requires some background to gel the different races together.

At present I have the Chaos Squats who have:
- Core formation of warriors
- Obsidion Guard - Your engineers, scientists and mad doctors
- Sentinels of Hashvaht - Equivilent Sentinel cross Terminator invention
- Bikes and Buggies
- Support Weapons

The other races and formations include:
- Damburi - Quadruped warriors (equivilent to your Bull Centaur in space)
- Levy Guards - Different races who provide a Levy for the Squat armed forces
- Slaves - Your cannon fodder equipped with explosive collars
- Gladiators - The elite CC force for the Chaos Squats who can enter battle via Zigganooks (queue Beethoven)

Apart from the above, and the various upgrades, we also have a few Chaos Squat War Engines (including the Zigganook)
- Rezahk: small squat 'excavation walkers' primed for battle
- Kollossus: A large walker employed to combat races across the galaxy
- Ur Cannon: It sits there and fires large shells of hate. No doubt this will be an opponents taget early in the game

There are two additions to the force that were in there from the start, yet now are finding themselves to be quite different to other aspects of the list. The original design was to have elements within the force that tie into the Great Chaos 'old school' Daemon Engines and show how they made them. While at first the list was made up of them, various design views and versions have seen only the following left:
- Lord of Battle: Mid ranged Titan for the list
- Death Dealer: A transport (2) vehicle for the Obsidion Guard.

As I have not had any negative feedback towards the inclusion of such Daemon Engines, I believe I will keep them in the list for the initial V1.0 release. I would expect this to be released in about a months time (give or take a week at a guess).

So there we have it. I will start to update this thread with special rules and datafaxes leading up to the first release. Feel free to let me know your thoughts and ideas.

Cheers.... :)

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:54 am 
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frogbear wrote:
Oh well, may as well keep this going. Someone may be reading it... :)


I think people are, but in my case at least, id find it easier to follow if there was a list to look at, even an embryonic one.

I like the inclusion of the older khorne daemon engines. You mentioned hellfire cannons a post or two back, if you have a massive cannon war engine (Ur cannon) it would make sense to have there smaller cannons elsewhere as well.

I like the 'multiple races' (squat/beastmen/human/bull centaurs), should make for some very interesting armies on the table top. In my view the tau should be a represented as a lot more mixed race as well (tau, kroot, vespids, diemburgs etc (sp?)) but tend to just be...tau ::) so this should be intersting :)

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:10 am 
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Apocolocyntosis wrote:
frogbear wrote:
Oh well, may as well keep this going. Someone may be reading it... :)


I think people are, but in my case at least, id find it easier to follow if there was a list to look at, even an embryonic one.


Noted. There is a reason for it's no-show which should be evident in the next 2 weeks I would think. It also helps to not provide a 'wishy-washy' list that is prone to be changed at a whim. When it is released, it should be pretty solid and open to ideas and debate once it has a firm base rather than in the theory stage.


Quote:
I like the inclusion of the older khorne daemon engines. You mentioned hellfire cannons a post or two back, if you have a massive cannon war engine (Ur cannon) it would make sense to have there smaller cannons elsewhere as well.


Well the LoB fits. The Death Dealers are yet to be seen but I have done my best.

I replaced the Hellfire Cannons with some other 'Squatish' support cannons that do not have the MW, but have the Indirect ability. It is a real toss-up as to which way these will end up, however I really do picture the Chaos Squats firing from afar rather than direct - much like the fantasy version (It is what they are known for with Cannons and Rockets so I thought I would keep to that theme).


Quote:
I like the 'multiple races' (squat/beastmen/human/bull centaurs), should make for some very interesting armies on the table top. In my view the tau should be a represented as a lot more mixed race as well (tau, kroot, vespids, diemburgs etc (sp?)) but tend to just be...tau ::) so this should be intersting :)


Yeah, this is the big-win for this list and for everyone out there with spare minis. Getting to use all those lonely miniatures that do not belong anywhere else is fulfilling to say the least.


I will get the list out as soon as possible. What I have learned from the World Eaters and Emperor's Children list, is that taking one's time (while not excessive) and being consistent presents a cleaner and more robust product. Chaos Squats deserve that at the least after all these years of neglect ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:44 am 
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I'll chip in with some support.

I've been reading everything you put up but I've also had a lot on my plate recently. I really like to look and feel of what you've described so far.

Keep up the good work mate.

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:38 am 
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So I am starting to work on the background for the list and have one 'crossroads' decision to make.

Forget about slaves, explosive collars and the like. These are just a matter of perception for these guys. What the real question is:

Are the Chaos Squats evil or merely misunderstood?

Let me know your view. It will help me build up the background and give me direction.

Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:12 am 
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Neither. They are selvish.

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:41 pm 
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Hmmm. I think I will tackle the background for these guys in another format - first person perspective.

That way I do not really have to say what they are either way....

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:10 pm 
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Why not just go with what the Dark Eldar Codex did - rumour, half-truths, and lies. Make it muddy and unclear which the Chaos Squats are.

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:57 pm 
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frogbear wrote:
Are the Chaos Squats evil or merely misunderstood?


I am not sure if I have misunderstood the concept here but...

By my understanding of "evil" I would have to say yes.

Perhaps not quite as "evil" as other "chaos" forces but nonetheless any race that interacts with "demonic" forces is likely to be some way down the path of "evil".


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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:22 am 
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This is just a 'fluffy' question for what people would like to see.

(This does not effect the Slave units so be assured using different models in formations will still be an option).

Chaos Squat Support Options. As they are the same point value and possibly the same effectiveness, I am throwing it out here for ideas...

Would people prefer the Chaos Squats to have:

a. A Levy Caste which can be made up of any models as part of the levy given to Chaos Dwarves who operate heavy weapons (formation of 6 with a sergeant)

or

b. An Ork formation (straight from the ork list) being 6 orks, 2 nobs and 2 Gretchin?

or

c. Some other 'orkish' equivalent thereby having your proverbial 'hobgoblins'?

I am guessing all will look good in an army, with orks possibly having a meaner look than Imp Guard-ish models....

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:50 pm 
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Is see Chaos Squats as a mix of Warhammer Fantasy Dwarfes (capabilities) and Star Trek Ferengi (mindset) :)

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