What will twin linked give?

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

Twin-linked invariably means a single shot, with +1 to all Firepowers. Not sure if that applies to AA. Probably would, though.

So an Autocannon is AP5+/AT6+
Two Autocannon are 2x AP5+/AT6+
A Twin Linked Autocannon is AP4+/AT5+

Morgan Vening.

range, AP3+/AT5+/AA4+ (AA3+ on intercept/cap)
instead of range , 2xAP4+/AT6+/AA5+
Can lose their save as well. Ideally I'd want them at 3 for 150 so I could get a big WE as well

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Ah

Yeah, not sure I like the idea of 1 shot planes myself - especially for a higher cost.

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

Could you just imagine the outcry and opposition I would get allowing 150 point airplanes?

That would be 6 units of fliers for me and then we would start the whole debacle again.

If they were popkhorneish at 200 points, 150 would not endear many people at all  

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

Yes tis effectively a nerf.
AA intercepts go to 2/3's of a hit from 1, AP (assuming targets in cover) from 4/6's to 3/6's while AT isn't much changed (targets normally in open). So its a drop of roughly 25-33% firepower wise.

An interesting comparison is with the much used L&D fighter
Fighter, save 6+, invulnerable save, 15cm, AP4+/AT5+/AA5+, ignore cover, fixed forward arc
3 doomwings for 150 points (2+ init)



Compare with Orks. What's a better plane, remembering you activate on a 2+ and they on a 1+ and they have 30cm AT4+.

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Orks are also SR3 vs the World Eater's SR4... so the WE aircraft can be put on CAP before the Orks arrive.

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

And Ork CAP is a 3+ IIRC.

Morgan Vening

I have been thinking about this one all night and would like to go back to the original project goal that;

It was also important that anything in the list was comparable to the Black Legion list, and anything that changed there could be changed here.

In this respect, I would like to stay true to that goal. Therefore I am happy to trial the Black Legion playtest changes for the aircraft at a higher cost (225 points) to help the development of those proposed changes.

As for World Eater weaknesses, I have been reviewing these. It is clear from much if not all literature that the World Eaters cast away their long range power for close range (assault) items. It is also clear that Daemon Machines and vehicles handle their limited (ie: non core) shooting capabilities. I have also adopted the theory that they do not use any ground based AA unless it was to be in the form of one of these previously mentioned vehicles/engines.

The above however does not ignore the fact that allies in the form of aircraft and Titans (the 1/3 support) are available and therefore should be representative. I would therefore prefer the costings and stats (barring some flavorful additions to names and weapons for Titans), remain the same as the Black Legion.

I also do not want to relegate the force to working only as a drop army. Yes, it does this very well. This does however mean that it is wholly predictable and will soon become boring to play with/against.

Over a sleepless night, I have come up with a few more ideas to assist this list with ground assaults while still remaining true to all the above mentioned as well as add a little more 'asked for' flavour to the list. I will talk more about these ideas and place them up for review when I get a little more time.

I also have another take on the Blood Rage rule that I will be placing up for discussion and talking about experiences of the current rule as it stands in V1.1 which I feel has had mixed reactions.

There are a few changes and additions to be looked at so stay tuned over the next few days  

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

I do not believe I will start the additions to the list before the game on Sunday vs Heavy Bolter 2 (that's you Blish   ) so I have updated the two playtest changes (Bikes and Hellblades) for V1.2.

With some of the additions coming up, V1.x series will move along nicely.

If I get a go ahead for an idea on the Blood Rage rule I am thinking of (Morgan, expect a call from me over the next few days   ), I may run a different version of playtests after the Heavy Bolter games to determine which Blood Rage rule should be adopted for the future of the list.

The points are looking pretty good for the majority of units at the moment, yet only the future of playtests and further comparisons will tighten the list up to be presented as a NetERC force for approval.

The goal is still 20 games play-tested by the end of this year, and with 14 under the belt after this Sunday, it is looking to be a reality.  

Alot of hours and sleepless nights have gone into this project and it is good to see that I am starting to get some overview from others on these lists. I especially wish to thank Morgan, Blish, LeanonRuss, and TRC for their support and playtests. Also I wish to thank others such as Black Legion and Chroma for their input as well. There are others but these will be thanked in future editions when I review every page on this thread and record their contribution.

So here is V1.2 for now.   World Eaters Version 1.2

I hope to maybe get some time this weekend to work on all the ideas I have and the fan area section at the end of the list, however all good things take time.  

Cheers......

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

Just for the record I still like the idea of the first blood rage rule you had for the list, even though there was some bad feedback about that.

The people need to remember that theory is just Theory and that's all. People should try to play games with the list with the bloodrage rule and then they will see how it does and does not work.

It is still there dude. I have not changed that.

I am merely going to present a proposal and see what people's thoughts are.

Essentially, nothing changes, yet all options that I and others can think of are considered.

Unless of course you are talking about another Blood Rage rule...?

Either way, do not let my crushing defeat against LeanonRuss give you any false confidence. I still have a place for you at the bottom of the pile of skulls  

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

I have the game against Blish in a few hours so I am not going to place up the army list that I am going to take against him as I would not wish to influence any tactics before the game.

In the meantime, V1.3 is finished and being reviewed at the moment. Before release, the following units are going through a final costing review to make sure they are in line with other lists with comparable/like units:

- Chosen
- Juggers
- Bloodslaughterers
- Predators
- Hellblades (as these have not been reviewed since BL changes, I will do some work)
- Helltalons (as these have not been reviewed since BL changes, I will do some work)
- Harbinger  (as these have not been reviewed since BL changes, I will do some work)
- Greater Brass Scorpions

The fan section at the back needs to be updated, and I will try to find the time for this, however it is not a core element for V1.3, and can form a project piece for the future when the list is tight.

V1.3 has some great new additions (some older, and some completely new with a 'twist'), and closes off such additions for the future. I cannot see further units being added as the options in the list and reference sheet entries are as big as they can possibly get. Anything further would be infringing on other lists such as the Vraks supplements which have their own style.

I will give a brief run-down of how this force goes against the 'secret army of Blish', (much like the one against Russ), later today. I will then look to push through to the release of V1.3, and then hopefully the painting can begin.  

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

Well we just finished the game and the pain and woe continues for the poor World Eaters as I had my proverbial behind handed to me in a crushing defeat.

The actual battle report (and the identity of my opponents army) will only be reported on only after the Heavy Bolter Tournament - about middle November.

First off, here is the army that was taken to be a Nightmare against my opponent:

3000 points
Devastation Class Cruiser
Berserkers + Skull Lord + Dreadclaws
Berserkers + Skull Lord + Dreadclaws
Terminators x5 + Teleport
Terminators x6 + Teleport + Daemon Prince (bugger, forgot he was a Daemon Prince)
Bike Retinue
Bike Retinue
Hellblades
Hellblades

I believe the force was ok to combat most forces yet I fear the dice had a different point of view. I am sure we have all experienced this picture below. Now in this one, the yellow dice are MW attacks so it was not as bad in that regard, but just look at the amount of attacks and how many misses at 3+ !! Bloody Terminators!



My BTS Terminators rolled worse that this (8 MW attacks for 2 hits only at 3+!!) yet I forgot to get the photo of that one as well.

So after telling Blish to leave the property in haste (where he laughed at me all the way to his car), I now sit here, hungry (as I have not eaten lunch), and continue working out the costiongs for V1.3 and grumble about Lady Luck's purpose for letting me down today.    

It was a good game overall and I was introduced to another force which was pleasing to see.

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

I say the better General with the great tactics just happen to win. LOL

It was a good game and mark up another loss to the WE, they have not won to many as Russ don't coun't does he Morgan.