The Vindicator has IC, the Bombard has IC, the Demolisher...

Indeed Flamer weapons have IC but there are also many units that have IC based on the size of the explosive round that they fire.

Its not just Flamer type weapons that have been given this ability, it is just that there are more of them.

The aim of the weapon was to dig out infantry and IC does that better than MW does.

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Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.

Does it really matter which weapon is MW and which is IC so long as they have a different role and are costed appropriately?

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In my experience the feral has been significantly overpowered and the decimator less significantly so. If one is to lose MW, I think it should be the feral.

Ive only ever used two ferals in a single game and despite not partaking in triple feral spam they have been noticably strong choices. On the other hand Decimators have proved suprisingly fragile. I'd almost go so far as say that moving decimators to the 1/3 Titans part of the list is itself enough to balance them.

I cant see any good reason to take them if they dont have some MW bite.

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This is actually my experience as well. I don't have as much game experience with the Ferals but in my games the Decimators have been a fragile formation that due to speed had to be used very carefully.

I am not sure who thinks that they need MW removed but I suspect that the Decimator is fine as is.

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Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.

I like the Decimators losing IC.  Most of the SHT chassis tanks have big guns of some kind.  They tend to focus on armor penetration for big targets as opposed to rooting out infantry (obviously, this is a very rough generalization and the Stormhammer is a major exception)).  IC would seem to fit the Ferals better as well - hunting the countryside, rooting small prey out of their hidey holes and moving on.

Besides, for balance purposes the Ferals need a bit of a cut and lowing MW is a bigger hit than losing IC.

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Neal

Well setting aside the (proposed/supposed/whatever :-) original intent for the Decimator for a moment, shouldn't we be trying to fix roles for units and then adjust point costs instead of just dropping abilities because they have a bigger impact on the cost and power?

It strikes me as an odd way to develop units.

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Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.

So do you think that the Decimator is overpowered for its price?

When tinkering with lists the last few days (BTW folks the Army Builder file for CSMs is broken and probably not usable) the one thing that struck me is that moving the Assault Co to the Aircraft/Titan section makes it quite difficult to do even the one Death Wheel/one Decimator list I used to play on a regular basis.

One thing that it was difficult to get people to address was whether the issue with the Decimator was the unit or the number you could field.

One of the only games where it was overly deadly was in a game was against an Eldar list and I managed to get two of them to fire into a unit of Guardians and obliterate them (quite literally if I remember correctly).

That army list also had at least one Death Wheel.

I am not sure that I could duplicate that list with the proposed restrictions on the Assault Co.

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Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.

I agree that it should be general style, then mechanics.  The Feral and Decimator should split the MW/IC not purely for reasons of power but because that will further differentiate 2 light WEs with currently similar roles in the army.

Also, I find that there is a limit to simply increasing point costs as a solution to problem units.  MW/IC is sort of an "un-fun" combination.

For the Feral having both abilities ends up being a lot of firepower on a proportionally fragile platform, which means it's sort of a "must-kill" for the enemy.  I think that reducing it to IC differentiates, fits the Feral style I described above, and addresses both mechanical and fun issues.

The Decimator might be okay as-is with respect to balance once moved to the restricted points but I think it still needs to be differentiated.  The army is a big light on anti-WE weapons, essentially limited to titans and GDs.  The Decimator with MW is respectable at popping heavy targets and should stay that way.  It helps keep that weakness from being too much and it is a good feel for a SHT.  If it were to go with IC instead of MW, it would be almost pure AP in its role.

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Neal

Good points

Its a bit slow for taking out WEs though is it not? Might be handy for Titans but I think that the average WE will be able to avoid it unless the Decimator is between a WE and its target

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Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.

For me moving the assault group to the 1/3rd titan/air sorts out the decimator and I agree that dropping MW on the Feral would balance it out nicely.

Well it is an old/obsolete Super-heavy Tank design. Perhabs because of exactly this problem

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What's the 'average WE'

In my experience that's Imperial SHTs which as we all know are the very model of agility and speed.  

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Fear is for the enemy, fear and bullets.
-James O'Barr, the Crow

When it was 0-2 I could get two single Decimators in quick 2000 point games that were quite effective. The trick is to overwhelm the defences, so the greater proportion were decimators and Ferals the better. Sticking them in the restricted section, and the nerf, stops this, would you still need the 0-2 restriction? (Without the nerf you could still max out without the 0-2 effectively.)

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@pixelgeek:

I guess my point with regards to MW/IC on which platform has been made.

@TRC:

Would spamming Decimators be any worse than, or as effective as, an IG force build around SHTs? I envision 4 companies with Hydra attached, say:

550 SHT Coy (2xSSword, 1xBBlade, 1xHydra)
550 SHT Coy (2xSSword, 1xBBlade, 1xHydra)
550 SHT Coy (3xSSword, 1xHydra)
750 SHT Coy (3xBBlade, 3xLeman Russ, 1xHydra)

2400, leaving 600 Pts for activations

say
300 Vultures
100 Sentinels
100 Sentinels
100 Sentinels

or really any mix of Inf Coys, Sentinels or Deathstrikes.

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Yup. Time to test I guess :-)

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Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.