OK

Helltalon pricing will change to 250pts. BP will remain 2 BP - renamed as 'bombs'

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Urgh! Do realise that this change alone may just effect the Cult Lists now having 1 less activation...

You know we do not have to walk along side the UK. Their cult lists are different and I think this should be taken into consideration.

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I'm fine with 2BP WITHOUT Ignore Cover. In IA Apocalypse the Hell Talon can carry 8 bombs (for example the Marauder has 12 bombs. So the Hell Talon has 2/3 the number) and CAN'T be equipped with incendiary bomb's.

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i feel that they should have 2BP and not ignore cover, because the chaos lists need a decent bomber option if they dont have a harbinger. however, i think their AA ability is too good. 'helltalon fighter-bombers' should not be better interceptors than 'hellblade interceptors'

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The aim isn't to follow the UK its to get the BL list and its pricing 100% correct before completion. Its either change the points or the stats 2xAA3+ in intercept at 45cm is fantastic . At 175 they were woefully underpriced.

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Did they always have that massive range AA shot?
Can't say as I noticed it before.
They're easily the best aircraft in their class with that plus bombs.

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There was a long long discussion in a galaxy far far away a long long time ago.

In short given 1bp ignore cover 45cm 4+AA (under the old rules mind, twas that long ago) was demeeded rather good and the weapon combo led to odd pricing. So it because 30cm AA for a sort of multi role jac of all trades fighter bomber.

EpicUK seems to have gone witht he 45cm AA as the base and made a marauder+ (same cost, better strike package with the missiles thrown in, no defensive weapons - somewhat moot given the proensity for 30cm AA on most palnes - and the capability to be a fighter instead of just a bomber with slightly lower armour, though put upon marauder users will confese you never expose them to flak ont he way on - that way lies madness). Certainly its better than a marauder, however whether or not its good enough to use given the whole get one shot down lose 2/3's of the firepower is difficult to judge.

Reading my post from this morning, I really do not care what direction they go in actually. I guess a better use for their points is going to be better than them being used for their activation count

So 250 for 2 with better stats and a 45cm AA 3+ on Intercept. Let me at 'em!

So is this official and ready to be changed?

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Yes. It duplicated the Lascannon stats on the Marauder, but because it is on a fighterbomber instead of a bomber, it becomes useful for interception.

The real trick, imho, is that after ground-attacking something in the deployment zone, it's possible to place them at the board edge so as to cover a semi-circle 90cm in diameter with AA coverage. This is a very rough pic, but like this:


Even though the AA is FXF, that positioning covers the Helltalon formation completely and no enemy can intercept without ending a move in the AA arc of one or the other. It covers a large amount of the enemy units with AA, protecting things like teleported units and further aircraft attacks from attack by enemy air.

Somewhat cheesy, but legal and effective.

Obviously, Marauders (and other units with 45cm AA FXF) can do this as well.

Jstr19 calls this "building the AA castle" when he does it with his Tau... he finishes by parking a pair of AX-10's in the middle. :-)

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Wasn't the underlined part debated and discussed as not working? That the following section from 4.2.4 was was exclusionary?

"Note that aircraft carrying out a ground attack mission that are armed with AA weapons may shoot at enemy interceptors that fall within the AA weapon’s fire arc."

I know there was debate on whether 'enemy interceptors' referred to those actually intercepting "that aircraft", but I was pretty sure there was consensus that if the enemy wasn't intercepting (via Intercept or CAP), and Ground Attacking, the AA didn't count?

Morgan Vening

I thought the case that Morgan raised was correct as well. AA only worked for the aircraft in question, and was not a static element once introduced.

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I assumed that I'd missed a debate where it was settled to the converse?

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I personally prefer that aircraft AA is only used in self-defence against aircraft that are using CAP or intercept against them, not least because IMO it is a much better analogue of air-combat, but views do seem to differ. In this thread Neal explained that he had always played that Aircraft AA could be applied against all other aircraft later in the turn, and others in the Epic-UK agree.

Although you can obviously cover this in the 5 min warm-up, this is one of those rules that seems to cause some confusion at regular intervals. It would be really helpfull if we could put a definitive answer in the FAQ.