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Red Corsairs (or generic Chaos Space Marines)
BlackLegion
 Post subject: [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:36 am 
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And why don't you likeit? I find that Lance represents exactly what the Demolisher is capable of: making heavy armour nearly useless. After all it has maximum Strength (10), Ordnance, a 5" template and Armourpiercing 2 making it very easy to damage something very badly.
It has no effect on coversaves whatsoever.
For a more exact simulation it should have MW against Infantry and Lance against vehicles.

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rpr
 Post subject: [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:06 am 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Feb. 21 2008,18:14)
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Well, we all know that the Daemonic Beasts are really Flesh hounds, whilst flesh hounds themselves get no official rules.  :(

Hey what about my Beasts of Slaanesh? I have used those as Daemonic Beasts in my Slaanesh army.

If they mess with 40k, no reason to remove fully working things from E:A to which we have miniatures =]
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zombocom
 Post subject: [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:41 am 
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BlackLegion: Lance may be a close equivilent to its 40k effect, but I still don't like it. Lance is a flavour rule, used on weapons which have the lance ability, and largely eldar one. If it starts getting stuck on other weapons just because they could have a similar (though not the same) effect in 40k, then you lose the flavour of the actual lance weapons.

Plus, lance doesn't really approximate to 2d6 armour penetration anyway. That's closer to Macro.

But all in all, Epic balance and keeping the lists flavourful is a lot more important than matching 40k stats exactly.

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Tooninki
 Post subject: [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:19 pm 
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If this is "Red Corsair" list shouldnt there be Chaos Thunderhawk/Thunderbird(?) as well as Hunters, they are quite new chaos chapter?!
And could you add the new stats for HellTalons & HellBlades?
Thanks!

Mika
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BlackLegion
 Post subject: [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:41 pm 
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@zombocom: Perhabs you want to comment on my Wh40k-weapons-to-Epic-translation-system thread? :)

@Tooniki: I was thinking about adding "loyal" units. I'm not so keen on using the Chaos Titans. Perhabs better would be the imperial ones?
So you could use a Chaos Warhound (look at ForgeWorld's Chaos Warhound but Epic scale :D  )instead of a Feral.
Then the Chaos Spaceships would be gone too and replaced by the StrikeCruiser and the BattleBarge.
Hunters would be a welcome addition if Obliterators are percieved as to slow and expencive.
But i don't want to open the floodgate to LandSpeeders and AttackBikes...
Thunderhawk would be ok because i missed them in the BL list :)

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Tooninki
 Post subject: [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:18 pm 
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Thunderhawk would be fine, that would be good excuse for buying one or two from FW! :D
Imperial titans sounds fine as does strike cruiser! :)
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BlackLegion
 Post subject: [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:54 pm 
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And it would fit the theme. I see the Red Corsairs as mainly a pirate chapter of Chaos Space Marines.
So Thunderhawks and DropPods for an assault on imperial outposts would be a common tactic to plunder the ressources to build the non-imperial gear such as Defilers, HellTalons, etc.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:07 pm 
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I would love to see:

- A Chaos Thunderhawk
- Chaos Titans that aren't daftly overpowered (Ferals). :D

So use 'standard configuration' Titans?

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Tooninki
 Post subject: [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:19 pm 
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Chaos "Lucius" class Warhound would be very nice! Inferno cannon & Twin turbo lasers, mmm... :D
Just want to use mine... :)
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BlackLegion
 Post subject: [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:38 pm 
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Soo. I did some major overhaul:

- Some heavy format editing to mach the rulebook layout
- Raptors formations and Obliterators/Cult Marines upgrades are now part of the 1/3 War Engines/Aircraft restriction to represent that they are normally members of the original 9 Traitor Legions.
- Cult Marines and Havocs now replace units in the Retinue instead of added to.
- Now included are Chaos Titans which are corruptet imperial ones. All have Dirge Casters which gives them Inspiring with an apropiate points boost.
- Added Chaos Thunderhawk, Chaos Strike Cruiser and Chaos Battle Barge.
- Added the proposed stats for Hell Blade and Hell Talon.
- decreased the summoning points for Greater Dameons from eight to six.

Now i need some flufftext.

Note that this army list represents Renegade Chapter Chaos Space Marines. This are Regenade Chapter Marines which have turned for a significant amount of time from the Imperium to develope Chaos traits but are not as old and corrupted as the original 9 Legions.
Because of this they have no Chaos factions nor accsess to the more powerful Chaos God dedicated Daemons.

If you want to play just-turned Space Marines use the Codex Astartes army list instead :)

Red Corsairs Regenade Chapter Chaos Space Marine Army List V2.0 is now upladed in the first posting.




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ragnarok
 Post subject: [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:43 pm 
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(BlackLegion @ Feb. 22 2008,15:41)
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But i don't want to open the floodgate to LandSpeeders and AttackBikes...

Whys is it that the day after a chapter turns traitor they crash all of their landspeeder.

Every single time.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:49 pm 
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Lol :D
Not the next day. But anti-gravitic drives are very complicated and maintainance heavy. After severing their ties to the Imperium and it's vast ressources the Renegade Chapters can't maintain their Land Speeders for a longer period of time (say...100 years or so).
I guess not even a Techmarine can built or even maintain an anti-gravitic engine. If it doens't work any more he orders a new one from the next ForgeWorld which produces anti-gravitic-drives.
Renegade Marines can't do this any more and attacking  a Forge World to steal the drives would be suicide even for a whole Chapter.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:33 am 
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Oops i forgot:

- changed Lance to Ignore Cover on the Demolisher Cannons ;)

You know my proposal but after all i will stick to the values the majority of the gamers wil see as "right".

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Markconz
 Post subject: [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:27 am 
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(BlackLegion @ Feb. 22 2008,02:36)
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And why don't you likeit? I find that Lance represents exactly what the Demolisher is capable of: making heavy armour nearly useless. After all it has maximum Strength (10), Ordnance, a 5" template and Armourpiercing 2 making it very easy to damage something very badly.
It has no effect on coversaves whatsoever.
For a more exact simulation it should have MW against Infantry and Lance against vehicles.

No not at all,  Lance definitely fits just the 'reduce AV to 12' of eldar weaponary. Demolishers even do extra damage against LV's in 40k, no way they should be extra good just against heavy vehicles. MW fits them perfectly (though the IC doesn't).

Could do the maths again but can't be bothered. It's been covered so many times before it all seems a bit pointless to cover it all again.

Anyway, main thing is that they are balanced in Epic, MW does that, other proposals floating around will keep them as crap as before and sitting on the shelf until a fix is eventually demanded once more.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:05 pm 
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Depends on what powerlevel you set the weapons.
Earthshakers are only 1 strength less than Demolishers and use the same rule if they hit something.
If you takein account that Ordnance weapons are relative inaccurate and that you have to place the center hole of the template over a vehicle in order to have a chance of a penetrating hit i see MW as a bit too much.
Lance on the other hand is something in-between of generic shot and MW shot.
But youre right from a straight 1 : 1 translation of Wh40k Lance-weapons abilities to Epic Lance fits 100%

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