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Chroma	Post subject: Comments before final L&D list is turned in Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:31 am
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm Posts: 9684 Location: Montréal, QC, Canada	Quote (yme-loc @ Oct. 12 2005,00:45) 1. Chaos Altar Yep its slow and its fire power is quite weak, but it is a 4+ RA fearless warengine (with an invulnerable save), it provides cover, an average 75pts worth of flak, gives an inspiring bonus, is a daemonic focus and augments summoning. In my opinion its alot for 150pts. 3. Plague Zombies OK, I didnt really think there was any chance of these being dropped. But I do think their abusable, mostly because of a problem that occurs with cheap teleporters (especially fast ones, or large formations) in this case an average of 10-11 zombies, I wouldn't use them to harass or actually bother attacking the enemy at all, I'd just wait till the 3rd turn and then teleport these guy's onto one of my objectives the enemy is threatening (probably blitz for best effect) its unlikely a 10-11 unit formation of 5+ save zombies will be shifted late in the game. So they are kind of a get out of jail free card. 1. As an avid L&D player, I think the Chaos Altar should have the "dragged back into the Warp" critical affecting units within 5cm, just like the Greater Daemon critical (whatever the final result of that is), that would definitely balance out some of its abilities and, in fact, I believe it had that as part of it's critical before. 3. As to the zombies as objective "spoilers", all the opponent has to do is break them.  Teleporting en masse means, most likely, blast markers; engage them with skimmers or a firefight and they're not contesting anything when they break.  I've had to do a lot of planning to get my zombies to be worth taking, and then, sometimes, you roll a "4" and they're useless, but even the big mobs can be broken and they don't tend to rally after that. I haven't had a problem with them and I've never had an opponent complain about them. _________________ "EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?
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yme-loc	Post subject: Comments before final L&D list is turned in Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 8:31 am
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 4:58 pm Posts: 599	Quote (Chroma @ Oct. 12 2005,03:31) Quote (yme-loc @ Oct. 12 2005,00:45) 1. Chaos Altar Yep its slow and its fire power is quite weak, but it is a 4+ RA fearless warengine (with an invulnerable save), it provides cover, an average 75pts worth of flak, gives an inspiring bonus, is a daemonic focus and augments summoning. In my opinion its alot for 150pts. 3. Plague Zombies OK, I didnt really think there was any chance of these being dropped. But I do think their abusable, mostly because of a problem that occurs with cheap teleporters (especially fast ones, or large formations) in this case an average of 10-11 zombies, I wouldn't use them to harass or actually bother attacking the enemy at all, I'd just wait till the 3rd turn and then teleport these guy's onto one of my objectives the enemy is threatening (probably blitz for best effect) its unlikely a 10-11 unit formation of 5+ save zombies will be shifted late in the game. So they are kind of a get out of jail free card. 1. As an avid L&D player, I think the Chaos Altar should have the "dragged back into the Warp" critical affecting units within 5cm, just like the Greater Daemon critical (whatever the final result of that is), that would definitely balance out some of its abilities and, in fact, I believe it had that as part of it's critical before. 3. As to the zombies as objective "spoilers", all the opponent has to do is break them. ?Teleporting en masse means, most likely, blast markers; engage them with skimmers or a firefight and they're not contesting anything when they break. ?I've had to do a lot of planning to get my zombies to be worth taking, and then, sometimes, you roll a "4" and they're useless, but even the big mobs can be broken and they don't tend to rally after that. I haven't had a problem with them and I've never had an opponent complain about them. Plague Zombies Fair enough, I guess their slow speed and complete lack of FF are severe problems in their use. I am not quite so convinced that they are as easily broken as you say if they only appear in the 3rd turn and are placed well by the chaos player. I really only raised them as the list is so close to completion and sometimes its these odd little formations that can cause the most potential for abuse. Chaos Altar A slightly worse critical might be the way to go here, seems to me that a formation of cultists seeing one of these destroyed isnt going to be too happy, perhaps re-instate the 6+ hit within 5cm and have its destruction place a further blast marker. _________________ Epic UK - Improving and Enhancing Epic Gaming in the UK [url]http://epic-uk.co.uk/wp[/url]
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wraeththu

Post subject: Comments before final L&D list is turned in Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:28 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 6:34 pm Posts: 231

[quote="yme-loc,Oct. 12 2005,03:31"] Chaos Altar A slightly worse critical might be the way to go here, seems to me that a formation of cultists seeing one of these destroyed isnt going to be too happy, perhaps re-instate the 6+ hit within 5cm and have its destruction place a further blast marker. The Chaos Altars critical effect is meant to be simialr to the GD critical effect. ?Once that is resolved I shall apply it to the Chaos Altar as well. -Audrey _________________ My Oubliette: http://audreysoubliette.wordpress.com Old archive: http://oubliette.tranquility-base.us/

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wraeththu	Post subject: Comments before final L&D list is turned in Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:50 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 6:34 pm Posts: 231	Quote (yme-loc @ 11 Oct. 2005 (19:45)) Quote (yme-loc @ Oct. 10 2005,09:02) 4. Questor Titan Its a warhound titan yes? Only with 5cm more speed, better FF and more ranged fire power! Are these abilities some how less important in a chaos army? 275pts seems right to me. Good point. ?It I can see reasons for it to be rasied to 275pts. -Audrey _________________ My Oubliette: http://audreysoubliette.wordpress.com Old archive: http://oubliette.tranquility-base.us/
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yme-loc	Post subject: Comments before final L&D list is turned in Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:14 am
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 4:58 pm Posts: 599	A few very minor points and queries about the list 1. I am a little confused by the transport option as listed, is it the intention of this rule that if I take transports for the cult I must also purchase transports for any winged daemon princes and chaos hounds even though both these units have a 30cm move. As it reads currently it would seem to be the case, I just find this a bit odd. 2. Also Traitor fire support are not listed as being transportable by land transporters is this intentional. 3. Will stats for a traitor PDF chimera be included in the final list or will it just refer back to the imperial guard list as is currently the case - if so the imperial chimera by the letter of the rules cant transport any chaos unit. 4. Big mutants are listed as having heavy stubber, a stat for this weapon already exists in the siege master list and unless the big mutants are armed with a single twin linked heavy stubber then AP5+ doesn't fit this, perhaps it would be better to list the big mutants as having 2 heavy stubbers and give them 2 AP6+ shots. _________________ Epic UK - Improving and Enhancing Epic Gaming in the UK [url]http://epic-uk.co.uk/wp[/url]
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Legion 4	Post subject: Comments before final L&D list is turned in Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:51 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm Posts: 36949 Location: Ohio - USA	Very Nice work Audrey, we downloaded it yesterday !  I'll study the L&D list more today.  I know these would not be on this list, but where is the stats on the Hell Talon, Obliterators, Raptors, Decimators etc. ...  I only looked at the L&D list quickly so far !   _________________ Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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wraeththu

Post subject: Comments before final L&D list is turned in Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:52 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 6:34 pm Posts: 231

[quote="yme-loc,17 Oct. 2005 (06:14)"][/quote] 1. I am a little confused by the transport option as listed, is it the intention of this rule that if I take transports for the cult I must also purchase transports for any winged daemon princes and chaos hounds even though both these units have a 30cm move. It will be changed to say Infantry that move 15cm or less will need transports if the transport option is chosen. 2. Also Traitor fire support are not listed as being transportable by land transporters is this intentional.

That is not intentional. ?It is an over sight from merging the old traitor section with the cultists.

3. Will stats for a traitor PDF chimera be included in the final list or will it just refer back to the imperial guard list as is currently the case

It will be updated to transport the same things a Land Transporter can.

4. Big mutants are listed as having heavy stubber, a stat for this weapon already exists in the siege master list and unless the big mutants are armed with a single twin linked heavy stubber then AP5+ doesn't fit this, perhaps it would be better to list the big mutants as having 2 heavy stubbers and give them 2 AP6+ shots.

I do not want to cause weapon name conflicts. ?I like the AP5+ stat line, but there really isn't a good name. ?The Heavy Bolter is an AP5+, but Big Mutants are know for carrying Heavy Stubbers. ?Perhaps 2x AP6+ maybe the way to go. ?I am curious what others feel about this.

-Audrey

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