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Stalker
Include the Stalker - it provides a different AA option 100%  100%  [ 22 ]
Total votes : 22

Stalker

 Post subject: Stalker
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:18 am 
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Quote: (stompzilla @ Feb. 01 2010, 19:48 )

Have you had a read of this Steve?

http://www.flameon.co.uk/index.p....emid=53

It's my turn up against BL this week, so I'll try and take some pics and get a report up.

What are your current thoughts on a reduced Oblit?

I have thanks - and Darren has passed on his feedback.

After a couple of games I'm pretty happy with the AA6 oblit - but there is the option to reduce the number of shots

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 Post subject: Stalker
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:10 am 
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If the general consensus is to stick with the Oblits, I'd be ok with them going to 2x AA6+, their then only really reliable for blast marker placement (and the occasional lucky kill I suppose), this gives the frequently neglected Chaos aircraft a role too, rather than relying on the Oblits to shoot everything down.

Personally I still, after initially hating it, like the idea of the Stalker if only for the more flexible AA options that open up with it, and the chance it gives you to actually take a mechanised formation without having to forego any AA cover.


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 Post subject: Stalker
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:28 pm 
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Ok so instead to being the FF-monsters Obliterators are (imho) supposed to be they are now a nuisance for Aircrafts. On top of their good firepower and high relisience off course.

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 Post subject: Stalker
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:19 pm 
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Personally I think that FF 2+ and and 3x AT/AP5+ coupled with Fearless and RA is pretty hardcore as it is.

I also think that 2x AA 6+ is more justified (i.e. that they can put some hits on air craft, it's just that they aren't very good at it) than what they had before.

If the Oblit is the solution then make them 0-1 too imho.


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 Post subject: Stalker
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:15 am 
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Quote: (Steve54 @ Feb. 02 2010, 06:18 )

Quote: (stompzilla @ Feb. 01 2010, 19:48 )

Have you had a read of this Steve?

http://www.flameon.co.uk/index.p....emid=53

It's my turn up against BL this week, so I'll try and take some pics and get a report up.

What are your current thoughts on a reduced Oblit?

I have thanks - and Darren has passed on his feedback.

After a couple of games I'm pretty happy with the AA6 oblit - but there is the option to reduce the number of shots

Obliterators with AA presents two distinct issues, the main one is that being infantry with RA makes them very hard to suppress and virtually impossible to destroy (dropping the AA power being the smaller issue). As Jeridan and others have pointed out it is this resilience of the AA capability that is really the major issue, because it places an almost guaranteed BM on any air formation in range irrespective of whether a hit is actually scored.

Dropping AA altogether is by far the better solution, but as you seem totally aginst this, a weaker altentative is to reclassify Obliterators to be Light Vehicles thus making them a better target.

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 Post subject: Stalker
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:14 am 
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Quote: (hello_dave @ Feb. 03 2010, 04:19 )

If the Oblit is the solution then make them 0-1 too

Please no

Hiding imbalances with 0-1 unit restrictions is not the answer

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 Post subject: Stalker
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:19 am 
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This poll seems to have run its course and is really not providing anything new.

I would suggest a new thread and poll be opened with the only real options I can see as being relevant:

1. Obliterators with AA  (regardless of their other abilities)
2. A Stalker Tank
3. A Defiler variant

This will give a better visual indication as to what people want to see in this list for ground based AA.

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 Post subject: Stalker
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:23 am 
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I'm happy to test the list with the Stalker and the downgraded Obliterators.

I like the idea of Obliterators having a bit of AA power as it provides something unique in Epic (teleporting infantry with AA). I also like the idea of the Black Legion having a pre-heresy AA vehicle as it's just silly to assume they don't have one just because they haven't got one in Warhammer 40,000.

In my opinion the problem with the old Obliterator stats is that they were "Mary-Sue" stats (and that the unit was then underpriced only compounded that problem), not that the unit's intended role was inherently a bad idea in the first place.




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 Post subject: Stalker
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:46 am 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Feb. 03 2010, 11:23 )

I also like the idea of the Black Legion having a pre-heresy AA vehicle as it's just silly to assume they don't have one just because they haven't got one in Warhammer 40,000.

:laugh:

Ben. I really wish I had the time to find your quote about having no interest in playing the game if it does not resemble 40K.

*just having a friendle dig - that's all*

:peace:  :grin:  :peace:

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 Post subject: Stalker
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:00 am 
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I don't think it's hypocritical to want stats to match in style where units are identical (So defilers should behave like Defilers, not like static artillery pieces, etc), and at the same time enjoy the prospect of having wider horizons than Warhammer 40,000 offers (ie: have more unit types).

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 Post subject: Stalker
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:38 am 
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Quote: (Ginger @ Feb. 03 2010, 01:15 )

Quote: (Steve54 @ Feb. 02 2010, 06:18 )

Quote: (stompzilla @ Feb. 01 2010, 19:48 )

Have you had a read of this Steve?

http://www.flameon.co.uk/index.p....emid=53

It's my turn up against BL this week, so I'll try and take some pics and get a report up.

What are your current thoughts on a reduced Oblit?

I have thanks - and Darren has passed on his feedback.

After a couple of games I'm pretty happy with the AA6 oblit - but there is the option to reduce the number of shots

Obliterators with AA presents two distinct issues, the main one is that being infantry with RA makes them very hard to suppress and virtually impossible to destroy (dropping the AA power being the smaller issue). As Jeridan and others have pointed out it is this resilience of the AA capability that is really the major issue, because it places an almost guaranteed BM on any air formation in range irrespective of whether a hit is actually scored.

Dropping AA altogether is by far the better solution, but as you seem totally aginst this, a weaker altentative is to reclassify Obliterators to be Light Vehicles thus making them a better target.

I'm not against changing anything provided there is a valid reason to do so either playtesting or a new argument - reiterating the same argument for the 17th time over a period of several years is not going to have an effect.

Oblits are very hard to kill or suppress in cover that is without doubt

I don't see the ability to put a BM on an air assault as being the problem - if its a huge issue that the oblit is difficult to stop from placing a BM on an incoming air assault then I would suggest lack of assault preparation needs to be addressed by the air-assaulter

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 Post subject: Stalker
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:42 am 
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Quote: (frogbear @ Feb. 03 2010, 02:19 )

This poll seems to have run its course and is really not providing anything new.

I would suggest a new thread and poll be opened with the only real options I can see as being relevant:

1. Obliterators with AA  (regardless of their other abilities)
2. A Stalker Tank
3. A Defiler variant

This will give a better visual indication as to what people want to see in this list for ground based AA.

We have had one poll and that has been no help whatsoever. Whatever AA option is chosen then the usual suspects will whinge.

I'm not interested in another poll for the usual talking heads to again reiterate their opinion. If you want to help shape development of the AA options in the BL playtest them and demonstrate your views.

LatD players have had problems with factions rule and have tested it - and it will now be amended in the next version of the list.

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