chaos thunderhawks already exist in two other lists, the Approved Emperor's children and the solidly developmental Red Corsairs, they are identical to regular codex thunderhawks except that they do not possess 'And they shall know no fear' which does make them more vulnerable when on the ground, I don't see why they should change further

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Like I said, it was just a suggestion as a means to provide greater differentiation with the Codex Marine version, in order to give greater freedom when creating or amending Chaos lists.

That said, having the unit present in approved lists tends is a big disincentive to adopt further changes, especially when they require the development of a new and weaker unit to replace something which must have been extensively tested in the new lists.

'Nuff said, should have chipped in earlier in the development cycle.

Hi All

Just touching base with everyone on how the Night Lords list is travelling. I have had four more games in the last couple of months, three against the Emperor’s Children which was for two wins and a draw and one against Biel-Tan Eldar which turned out to be a minor defeat.

Whilst we are early on with this project here are some of my impressions.

- Having the Raptor’s as a Core Formation is winner. This gives the Night Lords extra mobility and nuisance value, and really adds much to the flavour of the list. Combining two Raptor Cults into the Thunderhawk has also worked quite well.

- I am taking a liking to the Talon Pattern Warhound, but have found it is best used in tandem with the standard Warhound. I have not yet played a game using a Reaver. Maybe one idea that could go into the next version of the list would be in addition to counting the Reaver as part of the Dark Mechanicum/Navy part of the list, for it to also take up two or three Elite formation choices as well. This would force players to make choices between having the Reaver versus Terminators, Terror Claws etc.

- I have used Terror Claws in every game and I have found they seem to lack any significant impact on the turn they surface. Knowing the Night Lords doctrine of doing whatever they can to avoid fair fights if possible and the panic/disruption caused by some Terror Claws suddenly appearing amidst an enemy battleline I would propose adding one additional special rule to this formation as below. This rule is in part inspired by the drop pod rules:

“We bring the night”: Just after setting up the Terror Claws using the tunneller rule, choose one enemy formation within 15cm. This formation automatically takes one blast marker.

- With the “We have come for you” rules, the extra bonus if the enemy has more blast markers seems to be working fine. However, I feel that the -1 to enemy rally roles within 30cm might be way too effective. I now intend on playtesting -1 to rally to units within 15cm instead as well as making sure that if the opponent rolls a 6 for their rally roll this will be an auto-rally (as some formations that activate on 3+ will otherwise need a 7+ to rally which is harsh).

- I also have two tweaks intended for the next version of the list
1. Change Havocs upgrade to 1-4 at 40 points each.
2. Vindicator profile to actually go into the army reference sheet (same as Chaos Vindicator from 13th BC List).

Hopefully this will be enough food for thought for a while. This list is fine to sit on the slow burner until at least after the Red Corsairs are up and running. Please do let me know if you have any comments or ideas. I will do my best to promptly reply. Cheers.

Ouch -1 for your opponents formations within 30cm to rally is harsh... I feel bad for any Ork players going up against that.

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Hi All

Just again touching base with everyone on where the Night Lords are up to at this stage. I have only had the one game of late using the Night Lords List. The game was against a Stigmatus Covenant list which featured two Khorne Lords of Battle. The game ended after the fourth turn 0-0 on objectives with the Night Lords ahead on victory points 1060 to 745. The list I have been using recently is as follows (my next list is not having x2 BTS units).

Night Lords 3000 points

Night Lords Company with Champion 470
+Warlord upgrade +2 Havocs +4 Rhinos +Hyperios

Raptor Cult with Champion 175

Raptor Cult with Champion 175

Scouts 135
+1 Rhino

Terror Claws with Sorcerer 285
+1 extra Terror Claw +Sniper Upgrade

Armoured Company 470
3 Land Raiders
2 Predators
+2 Vindicator +Hyperios

Terminators with Champion 340
+1 extra Terminator

Warhound Titan 275

Warhound Titan: Talon Pattern 275

Thunderhawk Gunship 200

Hellblade Fighters 200

We played the game with the now reduced 15cm -1 to rally for enemy formations in the end phase (as part of the “We have come for you” special rule). I do not think this change hurts the Night Lords list too much. In fact it creates an interesting risk vs reward dynamic. Although this dynamic will vary dependent on a number of factors such as the initiative value of opposition formations and the strategy rating of the opposition army.

The risk been for the Night Lords to benefit they need to push within assault range of pretty much everything now and can in many instances be vulnerable to counter attack should the formation they are harrying rally, especially to those that can potentially summon some Daemons in for fun as well. In the game mentioned above the Night Lords broke one of the Lords of Battle and one of the Raptor packs moved to within 15cm to make it much harder for it to rally. My army list had two Raptor packs, one of which I would often save to activate late in the turn for this purpose. Again this ties in well with the Raptor theme that is quite prevalent in the Night Lords background.

The other impact of this rule was it forced my opponent to more seriously consider using the Regroup order to minimise the chances of his formations hitting a tipping point and breaking. Also he had to think more about protecting his formations that had broken.

The Terror Claws in this game again didn’t get to do very much at all, as the nearest enemy formation (which had been the only opposition formation not covered by ground based AA) had already been destroyed by a Thunderhawk bourne assault.

I will be doing up the next version of the Army List most likely in July. And as before I would urge people to still spend their time on getting the Red Corsairs over the line. In the meantime this list can keep happily stewing. Thanks.

As promised there here is the new update for the Night Lords.

This update is designated as Night Lords 0.3b. Updated PDFs are on first post of this thread.

Main changes include:

1. Added Vindicator profile to the Night Lords Reference.

2. Thunderhawk Gunship moved to Dark Mechanicum/Navy Section.

3. Land Raiders upgrade changed from up to 3 to up to 6.

4. Havocs Changed from 4 for 150 points to 1-4 at 40 points each

5. Part of the “We have come for you” special rule:
2. All Enemy formations within 30cm of any unbroken Night Lords Formations are at an additional -1 their rally test in the end phase. New version has changed this to 15cm.

6. Added Special Rule for the Terror Claws Formation
“We bring the night”
When placing the first unit of Terror Claws as per the tunneller special rule choose any enemy formation within 15cm of the unit, with that selected formation automatically taking one blast marker.

I have only had one game of late against a Steel Legion army which ended up as a 3-0 victory for the Night Lords, although a big factor in the game was some very subpar armour saves which saw a Leman Russ company routed by one round of fire from the Night Lords Armoured Company and two Shadowswords blowing up from critical hits in successive turns. This essentially stalled the Imperial Guard advance and very much limited what they could do in the fourth turn.

The Terror Claws actually got involved in this game emerging in turn four to put a blast marker on a broken Sentinel squad that was skulking around after failing to rally in the previous turn. They then used their position to shoot and break a hydra battery which opened up a clear flightpath for the Thunderhawk to drop the surviving Terminators (it picked up in turn three) onto the blitz objective.

The two Warhounds I had only played a limited impact on the game with Deathstrikes felling one early. The Talon pattern Warhound was lost to Shadowswords as I threw everything I could at them before the Leman Russ Company could intervene. The two Raptor packs deployed from a Thunderhawk to drive away an enemy Warhound, before one pack was sacrificed to hamper the advance of the Leman Russ Company.

I at this stage satisfied with the ability the Night Lords have to cause disruption to opposition armies. They are perhaps more fragile than some of the other Chaos Lists with no ability to summon Daemonshields (or have Daemon Engines for that matter) but they do come into their own if they can get their opponents on the back foot. I still could not find a way justify any disrupt weaponry into this list, but the “We bring the night” special rule does achieve a similar effect for the Terror Claws.

It would be interesting to see people having a play around with this army list and providing some feedback. I also would like to take this opportunity to congratulate Kyuss and everyone who efforts managed to get the Red Corsair’s into approved status. Thanks.

Hi All

I missed one detail I had intended for the 0.3b update as highlighted below.

5. Part of the “We have come for you” special rule:
2. All Enemy formations within 30cm of any unbroken Night Lords Formations are at an additional -1 their rally test in the end phase. New version has changed this to 15cm. New version will also allow an opponent who rolls a 6 for their rally roll to be an auto-rally.

If people who are playing any games with this list can play the list with this part added that would be great.

This amendment will be officially in the next update.

Thanks again.

Hi All

It has been while since my last post back in August so it was probably about time I touched base with where things are up to with the Night Lords. I have recently had three games with the Night Lords for one win, a draw and a loss with a brief description appearing below. The list I used for all these games was as in one of the above posts, except I have moved one Vindicator from the Night Lords Tank Company to the Night Lords Company to make sure I only had one BTS.

The game against the Gargants was with a player who had not used them before. I managed for the most part to avoid the Gargants in the first two turns and was well placed to threaten objectives in the opposition table side. The game opened up on the third turn with the Terror Claws emerging in a city up area to put down a blast marker on a Super Stompa just before it was assaulted by teleporting Terminators who broke it and reduced it to a single damage point. The retaliation from the Gargants routed the Terminators from the game and broke the Terror Claws. This ended up proving a problem for the Orks as they got so carried away on their revenge spree that they failed to pull back one of their Gargants back to protect the Blitz objective. Once the Gargants had exhausted their activations I just needed to fly my Thunderhawk through an uncapped Ork Fighter-Bomberz squad for the win. The Night Lords won 2-0 on victory conditions, had the Gargant’s better protected the Blitz the game likely would have ended in a draw.

The game against Iyanden had really aggressive tempo from turn 1 and the first game I have ever played that went to a fifth turn. The Night Lords advanced down both flanks against a more centrally deployed Eldar force led by a pair of Revenant Titans. The Eldar used their speed with repeated retain activations to utterly smash one of my flanks with my Tank Company and both Warhounds wiped out and the Night Lords Company (BTS) mauled and forced to pull back. My other flank of scouts advanced into a city area, they were soon joined by the Thunderhawk borne Raptor Packs and the Terminators. The Terror Claws also emerged in this area to put a blast marker down on the Storm Serpent before the Terminators assaulted and destroyed it, the Eldar in this area also lost their Night Spinners and had their Rangers broken. The Terror Claws themselves were almost wiped out by the Avatar after some counter-attacking Wraithguard broke a unit of Raptors who were trying to act as a screen. By the end of Turn 3 victory conditions were locked at 1-1 with both sides having capture the flag. Turn 4 saw some Eldar Wraithguard contest the city area objective who were driven back by the Terminators in Turn 5 with the help of all my remaining air support. The game ended up drawn 1-1 on victory conditions and drawn on victory points. Counting both sides only 5 of the 18 ground formations that participated in the game were still above half strength. Despite my best efforts I could not wipe out any of the three Wraithguard units, although my Raptor packs did shadow them late in the game to make it hard for them to rally.

The game against Marines was one of those games where I just could not get onto the front foot to get into the game. Early on in the game my tanks were smashed by the Marine tanks and both my Warhounds went down, one against Terminators and one to a Thunderhawk borne assault. My own Terminator assault achieved nothing as I could not win initiative at any point so things began to snowball with most of my units breaking and this was capped of by my Thunderhawk gunship with both Raptor packs onboard getting itself shot down whilst trying to stem the tide. The Marines could by this stage totally ignore the Terror Claws arrival and it was game over in the third turn with the Marines Winning convincingly 2-0 on victory conditions.

From here I plan on playing a different Night Lords List to try things from another angle. The list at the moment feels o.k, but it would be interesting to hear of anyone else having a play with the list to provide some feedback. I do have possible addition to the “We have come for you” rule I can bring in which would give the Night Lords an extra point of hackdown if they win an assault but again I would like to see what others might think regarding the list as it is at the moment.

Another thing I discovered in these games was that I have one profile incorrect in the army reference section. The Night Lords Terminators seem to be missing (Assault Weapons) MW, EA(+1) from their power weapons. This will alongside the rule amendment in my previous post will appear in the next list update which will be released mid-late 2018. Thanks.

Thanks for the update. How would you say the list is feeling in comparison to the other Chaos lists and what positives vs negatives does it have?

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At the moment the list is feeling like the Night Lords which is important. It has Raptors as a core choice, it has access to the Thunderhawk, it has mobility to pick the enemy away piece by piece, it favours unfair fights and keeping a broken enemy broken but it cannot it most cases stand up to a head on engagement.

Pros
- Flexibility in core army choices depending on what style of army you want. Possible to focus entirely on Raptor packs if desired.

- Access to a Thunderhawk Gunship, I have found putting two Raptor Packs inside is a winner (most of the time…).

- Terror Claws provide another thorn inside the opponent’s rear area, ability to put down a blast marker on an enemy unit upon them entering the battlefield combines well with a timed assault from another Night Lords.

- Good mobility in the list means the Night Lords are often in a position to threaten objectives or weak/broken units.

- Best used to hit the opponent piece by piece, Night Lords in their own against enemies with lots of blast markers or are broken.

Cons
- No Daemons or Daemon Engines. And not much in the way of Fearless units seen in many of the other Chaos Lists.

- Less army list choices when compared to other Chaos Lists.

- No dedicated artillery choices.

- With the exception of the Reaver Titan the Night Lords really do not have a lot to bludgeon the enemy. They also do not much capability of destroying enemy War Engines.

- Night Lords themselves are fairly fragile and cannot withstand nowhere near the punishment that most other Chaos lists or Space Marine lists (as another comparison) can absorb.

Currently I believe there is a balance between pros and cons but it is probably too early to tell if this list is too powerful/not powerful enough and again it would be great to hear any comments from anyone who has had a go at the list.

Hi All

I have updated the Night Lords list and reference to the C versions. The only addition at this time is the change to the Terminator profile which adds (Assault Weapons) MW EA+1 to the profile.

I have been using the following list for the two games below, with the main change been the Reaver Titan replacing the Warhounds from the previous list I was previously using:

Night Lords 3000 points

Night Lords Company with Champion 325
+Warlord upgrade +Dreadnought

Raptor Cult with Champion 175

Raptor Cult with Champion 175

Scouts 125

Terror Claws with Sorcerer 225

Armoured Company 465
2 Land Raiders
2 Predators
+3 Vindicator +Hyperios

Armoured Company 320
2 Land Raiders
2 Predators
+Hyperios

Terminators with Sorcerer 340
+1 extra Terminator

Reaver Titan 650

Thunderhawk Gunship 200

The most recent game was against an Eldar Iyandan list. The game ended after the fourth turn with the Night Lords up 1-0 on victory conditions with Iyanden ahead on victory points 1840 to 925. Iyanden had some serious activation issues in the first turn with 4 formations failing activation (including the Phoenix Bombers) which stalled many of the things they were looking at doing. The Iyanden supreme commander was off table with the Wraithlord formation. Much of the fighting was centred around a urban area centre on the battlefield. The early game Night Lords focus was to take out the 2 Storm Serpents. The Night Lords commited both their Thunderhawk assault as well as their teleporting Terminators to this. The Terminators failed in their attack and broke into the cover of some woods but were completely routed by a barrage from the Night Spinners. This forced the Reaver Titan to push well forward to make sure the second Strom Serpent went down, this happened at the same time a Raptor pack destroyed the Night Spinners to avenge the Terminators. Late game was mostly about the Iyanden pushback against the Night Lords advance led by the Phoenix bombers that severely damaged the Night Lords Tank Formations. The Avatar was unleashed upon the Raptors who took out the Night Spinners. The Avatar was looking to break the Raptors before they could threaten the Blitz, this failed due to a failed activation roll. The Raptors headed for the blitz but were broken by a strafing run from the Nightwings. The Eldar made a concerted effort to bring down the Reaver Titan with the Wraithlord formation as well as the Falcons/Firestorms opening fire and getting a crossfire bonus after the Vypers flew behind the Reaver. The Damage caused broke the Titan and forced it to pull back, even then it was attacked by the Phoenix Bombers which went after it in the final turn putting a total of six hits on it, but the Reaver passed five saves to finish the game on two damage points remaining. Terror Claws emerged to remove the last broken Ranger squad skulking in some woodland and then went for the blitz objective, I had been expecting the Phoenix Bombers to fly in and drive the Terror claws from the blitz as well, but they instead decided to go after the Reaver Titan instead. The Night Lords kept the Iyanden on the defensive for most of the game but the later part of the game saw the Night Lords take quite a pounding.

I also had a game using the Night Lords list against the Alpha Legion List. The game ended in with the Alpha Legion up 1-0 on victory conditions with the Night Lords narrowly ahead on victory points 1185 to 1027.5. This was very much a game with lots of move and counter move. The Alpha Legion Marine formations for the most part went on the offense whilst the Cultist formations tended to be more defensive in what they did. The Alpha Legion Fellblades performed well, holding their own against the Night Lords armour and the Reaver Titan. Alpha Legion was a failed activation from winning the game 2-0. They were in position to have a stranglehold on two objectives including the blitz but the Headhunters failed to activate and got caught and wiped out by both the Raptor Packs.

As always if anyone had any feedback for this list that would be great. I am at the point now where I would be willing to put other lists under development onto my playlist and to provide constructive feedback to people who would be willing to reciprocate. I am hoping to get a few games in over the next month or so. See you next year.

Hi All

It has been quite sometime since my last post, and I have not really had many opportunities to play much Epic. I have played only a couple of games in the last six months and only one game with the Night Lords against a new player using Eldar. Towards the end of the year (once my sporting commitments are out of the way) I will be looking to get some more games in with a slightly tweaked list. As always I would like to know what anyone else who has had a go at the list thinks. I have a least made a start on painting up an army as per the photos below. Thanks.

Cool looking Night Lord's!

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Hi All

It has been a while since my last post. I have been painting up the Night Lords Atramentar formation as per the photo. Last month I got in a game between the Night Lords (using my most recent posted list) and an Iron Warriors force.

After a diagonal deployment I had the NL push down one flank in strength supported by my Reaver Titan. My large Tank Company broke the IW Vindicator Company. I sacrificed one of my Raptor Packs against one of the two IW Companies which opened them up for a Thunderhawk ground assault which saw the NL Company wipe out the IW Company.

The IW Decimators and Tank Company pushed done my weaker flank which was defended by the NL Scouts and the smaller NL Tank Company but was later backed up by my Reaver Titan that had now turned around to defend. I managed to wipe out the IW Tanks and destroyed a Decimator with a critical hit.

The turning point in the game came in turn 3 when the IW Battleship fired all its pin point attacks at NL Reaver Titan and rolled up 8 points of TK damage leaving the Reaver on one damaged point and three Reactor criticals, it did not survive the end phase.

The IW Scouts drop podded near the NL Blitz but were strafed by the NL Thunderhawk followed by and by an assault by second NL Raptor pack which broke them. The Rallied IW Decimator could not be stopped from taking the Blitz as both NL formations that had been defending this flank had been wiped out.

The IW Blitz was defended by an IW Company protecting their Basilisk battery. What I did to attack this was to Teleport the NL Terminators to where the NL Terror Claws surfaced allowing me to double team (by clipping assault) the IW Company after they were softened up by my larger tank formation. The IW Company broke and didn’t rally, their Basilisks had spent this time driving away from the scene before they could be destroyed.

The game went to a fifth turn which led to extra casualties mainly from air power from both sides. Of the 16 ground formations involved in the game only 3 of them were above half strength.

Result was 2-2 on objectives with the Iron Warriors winning the victory point count 1745 to 982.5
I did like the ploy of having the Terminators and Terror claws appearing in the same area as it gave them more options and more clout.

Hi All

I have been away from Epic for a while but I am hoping to get back into it some more in future. I have attached a few photos of my latest formation I have painted up which are the Terror Claws. I have also been making some considerations for an update to the Night Lords army list, some of which I have mentioned in previous posts.

One new option to the list that has been on my mind recently has been the Warp Talons, with the profile below that I intend on play testing. To my knowledge Warp Talons tend to be most associated with (although not exclusively) the Night Lords and do not exist in any of the other Epic Chaos Lists, if they exist already in another army list please let me know.

Warp Talons
0-1 choice in Elites section of the army list
Cost 4 for 240 points including a Talon Master (character) which adds extra Attack (MW, not first strike) and Sniper to the unit they are in.
Upgrades: up to 2 extra units for 45 points each

M Save Assault Firefight Weapons Special Rules
30 4+ 2+ N/a Lightning Claws (MW) Invulnerable Save, Teleport, Jump Packs, First Strike.

I have played one game using a unit of Warp Talons against an Iron Warriors force. They teleported in the third turn at the same time and place as the Night Lords Terminators who were both going to assault an Iron Warriors Company that had been isolated from other supporting units. They assaulted first to weaken the Iron Warriors and to benefit from the support fire from the Terminators. They killed three Iron Warriors units with the Terminator Support fire killing two more. The Warp Talons still lost the assault and by the end of it were broken with one stand remaining. This broken stand was strafed by aircraft not long after which put them out of the game. The Night Lords Terminators retained initiative and assaulted the weakened Iron Warriors formation breaking them from their position.

I am hoping to get another game or two in within the next month to play test them further and I hope to be able to put together a new version of the army list around the end of this year.