Not since the army book was being done.

I actually did wish to go cheaper, however I did not wish to make changes that would question the validity of the list (you list is too cheap) as opposed to the Black Legion. I simply dropped what I could without upsetting any 'apple carts'.

With these discussions and potential for change however, I am all for a review. I would do it in line with any changes with the Black Legion and then spruce it a bit (if possible) to encourage the cult lists to take daemons as a serious consideration rather than as a 'fluff' decision.

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

The only reason I can see is for the purpose of blast markers and not being broken after he/they dissapear.

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

Just thinking out loud at this stage
Daemonic Pact 50pts- acts as now allowing summoning of 2D3 daemons. Also you get 2 lesser daemons which go in pool
Icon bearer 25pts - no change
Champion 100pts - as now augment summoning 2D3 when summoning lesser daemons. With the Champion you get a Greater Daemon or 3 lesser daemons. If choosing to summon the GD the GD is summoned automatically replacing the Champion stand

Extra Lesser Daemons can also be purchased

_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

Just thinking out loud at this stage
Daemonic Pact 50pts- acts as now allowing summoning of 2D3 daemons. Also you get 2 lesser daemons which go in pool
Icon bearer 25pts - no change
Champion 100pts - as now augment summoning 2D3 when summoning lesser daemons. With the Champion you get a Greater Daemon or 3 lesser daemons. If choosing to summon the GD the GD is summoned automatically replacing the Champion stand

Extra Lesser Daemons can also be purchased

_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

I think it might be simpler to give the Champion the option to sacrifice for 6 summoning points, and drop the price on the Champion.

Roughly the same effect/price. 2d3+6 guarantees enough points to summon the GD (with some remaining chaos-y randomness). It can be done with a note "special rule" on the datasheet. You don't have to mess with package buys in structuring the army list.

"The unit with the Champion may be killed to guarantee the maximum 6 summoning points. No BMs are gained for the sacrifice."

I like Neal's suggestion. Brings back the sacrifice option into the list that a lot of people requested in earlier iterations

Some time ago i came up with this:
New Special Abilities:
Icon
Each unit with the Icon special ability can, at the start of its formation’s action, before the action test dice roll is made, summon 1+D3 units of Lesser Daemons from the Daemon Pool to the table. The Lesser Daemons must be set up with their base within 5cm of any unit with the Icon special ability. They may not be set up in the Zone of Control of an enemy unit or in impassable terrain.
Lesser Daemons count as part of the formation for all rules purposes as long as they remain on the battlefield. The only exception to the normal rules is when a Lesser Daemon is destroyed it does not cause a blast marker to be placed on the formation. They are otherwise counted as normal units, and are included when working out if a formation outnumbers an opponent in an assault or is broken by blast markers, etc. Note that Lesser Daemons that are killed in an assault do count towards the number of units killed by the enemy when working out modifiers to the result dice roll. If a formation loses an assault (see Core Rules 1.12.8 Loser Withdraws) you remove extra hits from the formation before it is considered broken and all the remaining Lesser Daemons are removed.
Summoned Lesser Daemons remain on the battlefield until destroyed. Lesser Daemons who are destroyed or removed can't be summoned again.

Host
A unit with the Host special ability is possesed by a Greater Daemon. At the start of its formation’s action, before the action test dice roll is made replace the unit with the Host special ability (which now counts as destroyed but doesn't cause a Blastmarker) with a Greater Daemon from the Daemon Pool. Greater Daemons count as part of the formation for all rules purposes as long as they remain on the battlefield. The only exception to the normal rules is when Greater Daemon looses points from it's Damage Capacity or is destroyed it does not cause blast markers to be placed on the formation. They are otherwise counted as normal units, and are included when working out if a formation outnumbers an opponent in an assault or is broken by blast markers, etc. Note that Greater Daemons that are killed in an assault do count towards the number of units killed by the enemy when working out modifiers to the result dice roll. If a formation loses an assault (see Core Rules 1.12.8 Loser Withdraws) you remove extra hits from the formation before it is considered broken and all the remaining Greater Daemons are removed.
Greater Daemons remain on the battlefield until destroyed. Lesser Daemons who are destroyed or removed can't be summoned again.

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/

I agree with this

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

Proposal
Daemonic Pact - 50pts - allows summoning of 2D3 daemons, Summoning mechanic remains the same. In addition for each Pact purchased you get 2 lesser daemons in the pool.

Icon Bearer - 25pts - daemonic focus as before.

Champion - 50pts - The Champion may add 2D3 summoning points to the Summoning process each turn or the Champion may be Sacrificed for the maximum 6SP to summon a Greater Daemon. If the Champion is Sacrificed the unit is removed from the table and the GD placed within 5cm of where the Champion was. No BMs are generated for the loss of the Champion unit.

So general Daemon use gets slightly cheaper eg, for an army with 5 pacts you would have 5 pacts+10 daemons for 250pts rather than 300 before. GD is now guaranteed to come on with the Champion at a total cost of 150pts. Should the GD have 'in-bulit' daemonic focus?

_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

augment summoning still kept as a rule for the chaos shrine?

_________________
My shifting projects

Up to Tim

_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

cheaper summoning makes daemons a bit better but it doesnt solve the "breaking the formation kills them all" problem which is my primary concern

i do like the sacrificing champions for he GD summon though, thats a cool idea

_________________
~Every Tool Is A Weapon, If You Hold It Right~

I've never really viewed that as a problem

_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

I don't understand the purpose of bundling them into a package. What does it accomplish?


I wouldn't mess with special placement rules. It's restrictive enough as it is.


I'm not sure how you are adding this up. It would be 125 points just for the pact, icon and champion.

The question comes, does a GD need to be paid for as part of the Daemon Pool as well?