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Tyranid air swarm V1.0

 Post subject: Tyranid air swarm V1.0
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:24 pm 
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Well, here it is. ?After lots of thought and vast amounts of alcohol (to help the mind ?:D ). ?I have come up with the first draft of the Tyranid air swarm. ?Alas they nids need a tonne of special rules (damn them all!). ?Hopefully they are in character and as simple as I have hoped.

This first draft contains just the units we all know, and I persume love, variants and alternate weapon loads (as well as points) will come laters, once we have got the feel of them right.

I have left out my idea of allowing them to gain extra speed by diving, because I am trying to write general rules for that for everyone to use that also include airframe tollerance.

So without further ado ?the list ?:blues:
Tyranid air swarm ?V1.0

Special rules (alas)

Gargoyles
Each Gargoyles ?shot? carried by Harridans and Vituperators may be used in one of two ways. ?The first way is as a weapon, the second as jump troops. ?You do not need to decide which way the gargoyles are being used until they are.

For example: ?A harridan is being chased by a thunderbolt and fires upon it with a Gargoyle brood. ?Next turn the harridan arrives over the drop zone and the remaining two Gargoyle broods are dropped off. ?It now has 0 ammo left for its? Gargoyle weapon.

Claws
Claws may only be used if the tyranid flyer is on the same altitude as an enemy flyer and within 3?, or have passed over an enemy ground unit at altitude 1. ?Claw attacks always hit on a 6.

Gargoyle swarms and myotic spore mines clusters.
Gargoyle swarms and myotic spore mine clusters do not need to be placed at altitude zero like all other AAA. ?Instead they may be deployed upto their maximum altitude. ?They will be able to fire at enemy aircraft on this level and the ones above it in the normal manner for AAA.

In addition Gargoyle swarms and myotic spore mine cluster are not activated like any other unit. ?Instead they will attack all enemy units within range at the end of the firing phase.

pilot skills
All Tyranid air swarm units have a pilot rating of 3+.. ?This may never be improved by them becoming aces (of any sort), though you should still keep a track of their kill tally to build up the character (or what little tyranids have) of the units.

Tyranid units may not use the following pilot skills:
Sustained burst
Eject (kind of logical if you think about it)

Harridan
Harridans may use the extreme manoeuvres pilot skill (even though they are not aces), in addition they may use it more than once per game.

Weather
+1 to the dice roll, when rolling to see what the weather is and to set the cloud deck.


Units

Harridan
Type: bomber, Manoeuvre: very high, Hits: 3, Max speed: 4, Min speed: 0, Thrust: 1

Weapons fire arc ? firepower ? damage ?ammo ?special
1. twin bio cannons ? ? front ? ? ? 2/1/0 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 4+ ? unl ground attack, extra damage 5+

2. Gargoyles ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? rear ? ? ?6/3/0 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 4+ ? ? ? ? ?3 ? ? extra damage 6

3. claws ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? base ? ? ? 1 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?3+ ? ? ? ? unl ? ? ?extra damage 4+

Vituperator
Type: bomber, Manoeuvre: high, Hits: 6, Max speed: 4, Min speed: 0, Thrust: 1, Transport:4 (may be upgraded to jump troops)

Weapons fire arc ? firepower ? damage ?ammo ?special
1. heavy devourers ? ? front ? ? ? ?8/4/0 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 5+ ? 6

2. Gargoyles ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? rear ? ? ?6/3/0 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 4+ ? ? ? ? ?5 ? ? extra damage 6

3. claws ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?base ? ? ? 2 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?3+ ? ? ? ? unl ? ? ?extra damage 4+

AAA
Unit ? ? ? ? ? max altitude ?fire power ? altitude ?damage ? ammo notes
Gargoyle ? ? ? ? ?3 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 2/1/0 ? ? ? ? ? +1 ? ? ? ? 4+ ? ? ? ?unl ? ? ? extra damage 6
Swarm

Myotic
Spore ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 6 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 2/1/1 ? ? ? ? ? +2 ? ? ? 3+ ? ? ? ?unl ? ? ? ? ?extra damage 5+
Mines

?thropes ? ? ? ? ? ?0 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?2/1/1 ? ? ? ? ?+1 ? ? ? 2+ ? ? ? ? unl ? ? ? ? ?extra damage 5+

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 Post subject: Tyranid air swarm V1.0
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:57 pm 
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Well it doe slook interesting. First off I'dchange it so that gargoyles and mycetic spores that are deployed as AAA can attack units that are one altitude band below them as well as ones at the same and above. Also clarify how many transport points gargoyles count as. If a harridan drops off 3 broods of gargoyles is that 3 transport points or 3*6=18 points, from a balance thing I'm guessing it's the former but it wouldn't hurt to clarify. Finally I'd make gargoyles aerial attack only, I can live with using claws against ground targets, but IMHO the effect of gargoyles on ground units is adequately represented by the transport rule.


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 Post subject: Tyranid air swarm V1.0
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:15 am 
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I'd change them to max speed 1... at most! :D

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 Post subject: Tyranid air swarm V1.0
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:26 am 
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max speed 4 is about 1500kph in game terms. isn't that a little fast for a flying lizard?


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 Post subject: Tyranid air swarm V1.0
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:26 am 
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I disagree that air speed of 4 is roughly 1500 kph (Mach 1.25 at Sea level).  I am unsure what to say the scale is yet as I do not have the book.  But I totally disagree with marv335's method of determining the speed ratio - based on max speed performance speed of aircraft equaling its max speed in the game.  He and I are having the discussion on Warseer in more detail in the other Tyranid thread.

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 Post subject: Tyranid air swarm V1.0
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:56 am 
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I'll try to answer some questions.

E&C:  Max speed 1 wouldn't be any fun now would it.  Besides if you can believe in organic space ships that have organic warp drives and organic Gellar feild generators, how hard is it to believe in flying lizards mixing it up with jet fighters? :D

Marv335:  I'll look at your discussion on warseer when I get to a computer that doesn't block access (damn work), it sounds interesting.

My take on the speed bands is that it represents the maximum speed of the aircraft in a combat enviroment rather than it at cruise speed or with full after burner.

Cmdr_Adeon:  I'll try to explain the gargoyle bit, hopefully a bit more clearly.

Each Harridan has three broods of gargoyles each brood may be used either as a single point of transported jump troops or as a single shot from its tail weapon.

Also on the note of gargoyle tail weapons, I am going to change their firearc to down.  This gives a sweet spot tailing high tyranid air units, since their gargoyles can't cib fast enough, but can decend quickly.

They are ground attack at the moment (though I was going to make them aerial only) since heavy bolers can be used to harm battle tanks and bunkers (I think the rear turret on the marauder can shoot ground targets), so Gargoyles should be able to, I can see them crawling down ventilation shafts to get into the bunkers.  Also them counting as troops wont help if the objective is to destroy an air field, or a bridge (and no, don't ask how gargoyles can destoy a bridge)

On the AAA your idea is easier to write and understand, but I am trying to get the two units to be different.  At the moment garoyles occupy two altitude bands and with a circle of radius 12".  The myotic spore mines occupy a much larger area, three altitude bands and a radius of 18".

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 Post subject: Tyranid air swarm V1.0
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:13 pm 
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The problem is simple...no bio engine can fire that speek...in any way...its ridiculously fast...nothing biological has ever been as fast as a jet plane....(i think the african swallow make 32m per second thoguh)

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 Post subject: Tyranid air swarm V1.0
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:15 am 
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on the other hand, nothing biological has ever evolved into spacecrafts... this is still a fictive universe.


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 Post subject: Tyranid air swarm V1.0
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:53 am 
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OK. If this is going to go anywhere, we need to come up with a set of basic ideas that we can all get behind.

1. Tyranids have evolved space travel.
2. Tyranids are best at planet drops.
3. Tyranids are going to be reasonably slow (at best).
4. While it is true that Tyranids may not have the natural capacity to ever evolve fliers that can compete in AI, we must assume that they have managed this somehow - or they simply dont ever make it into the game. (If you cant agree that they have evolved this far, that is fine. In your worlds they will never feature in the game. You may be right, but what if...).

So, we have a choice of three routes to go down.

1. We can either come up with stats and ideas for the existing fliers such as the Harridan which places them within the realns of the standard units in the game.

2. Or, we can create a 'more traditional' drop list - jellyfish-like spore balloons, mycetic drop spores, 'static' Gargoyle clouds, etc.

3. Or, we can break with tradition totally and create new Tyranids creatures which may be able to compete in aerial (interceptor and bomber) combat but which have not yet been seen and identified by other races... (and if the Tyranids live by evolution, they would probably need to tackle this issue fairly soon in their planetary conquests or be denied the skies totally.)

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 Post subject: Tyranid air swarm V1.0
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:15 pm 
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(hotwire @ Jan. 27 2007,16:13)
QUOTE
think the african swallow make 32m per second thoguh

But how fast can they go if they are carrying a coconut?  :p

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 Post subject: Tyranid air swarm V1.0
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:34 pm 
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Lol. My thoughts exactly :D


I haven't read the AI rules but a couple of thoughts on weaponry: Area of effect weapons: Does these exist? If so how about some kind of breath weapon? The Tyranids lack speed but can "barrage" an area in hope of hitting the enemy. Also I do like the gargoyle idea but how about an alternative type of ammo: Haridan droppings! No seriously: Imagine the Harridan (Or some other large flying Tyranid creature) being able to ?"pass wind" so to speak. This gas would be awfully corrosive of course causing engines to malfunction etc. Mainly a defenisve weapon system the weapon may only be fired at targets immidiately behind the harridan... Just a thought...

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 Post subject: Tyranid air swarm V1.0
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:35 pm 
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a better idea is that Nids have captured normal fliers and used biological brains to fly it...and turn it slightly into a living organism..but still jet powered....i mean...IN Ships have souls...look when i receive my thunderbolt oll convert it into a nid flyer to show what i mean...sorry if this seeme rude...having re -read it seems rude but i dint mean it...

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 Post subject: Tyranid air swarm V1.0
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:41 pm 
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(hotwire @ Jan. 28 2007,17:35)
QUOTE
a better idea is that Nids have captured normal fliers and used biological brains to fly it...and turn it slightly into a living organism..but still jet powered....i mean...IN Ships have souls...look when i receive my thunderbolt oll convert it into a nid flyer to show what i mean...sorry if this seeme rude...having re -read it seems rude but i dint mean it...

Sounds a lot like a cylon raider to me.  :D

As to testing any form of an nid air swarm list.  I'm ordering in a pack of AI bases in this months order form FW, so I will be able to put 4 harridans and a vituperator in the air and see how they do against 4 thunderbolts, 2 lightnings and a whole host of AAA.

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 Post subject: Tyranid air swarm V1.0
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:10 pm 
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For those who are curious... I have a AI Tyranid Air Hive list I developed based on conversations on Warseer, Airspace and here.

Rules & some background - here It is currently in v0.2 and has even been playtested some by Kris.Sheriff (an Air Tyranid skeptic).  Eventually will see more playtesting, currently no one has made any models - yet (I have some ideas).

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