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First two battles

 Post subject: First two battles
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:41 am 
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I had two games yesterday, well by me.  I mean the kids at my gaming club.  I just did the rules bits for them.

First game was two vs two Thunderbolts, all planes were naked.

They played until one side was wiped out and we used the advanced ammo rules

Second game all the thunderbolts had a pair of skystrike missiles and we had cloud cover at level 4 (also one plane decided to start landed  :blues: )

In both games the Yr9 boys wiped out the Yr10 for no loses, despite the better tactics of the Yr10 the bucket of dice approach seemed to go against them.

It seems that when you hit your target (or it did to us) you either do no damage, 1 point of damage or lots.  One barrage of shots did enopugh damage to take out a marauder in one go.

The pre deciding the manouvers was very enjoyable.  Several times planes would end up out of position because they misjudged the enemy, other times they would be in the right position to waste their enemy, only the enem,y wouldn't be their since thwey were forced to move first.

This brings me onto my next point.  The winner of the stratagy roll should decide to go first or second.  Being able to force the enemy to move is quite useful.

finally missiles.  They need to work differently to guns.  Allowing a plane to shoot its entire load, like the Tau can, would be a start, but I think we should write new rules for them.  Allowing them loger shots than guns, and that can allow us to then work in rules for chaff and flares.

Overall I like the game, though once combat is joined you don't really need the table.  Most of the combat happening in a furball only a foot across (with everyone moving as slow as they can and barrel rlling and wing over diving all over the place).  Today we are going to introduce AAA and ground targets.

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 Post subject: First two battles
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:48 pm 
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(ragnarok @ Jan. 10 2007,09:41)
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finally missiles. ?They need to work differently to guns. ?Allowing a plane to shoot its entire load, like the Tau can, would be a start, but I think we should write new rules for them. ?Allowing them loger shots than guns, and that can allow us to then work in rules for chaff and flares.

Agreed. Which was the reasoning behind my post about the type of missiles in 40K. Perhaps a new thread...?

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 Post subject: First two battles
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:13 pm 
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I guessed (eventually) that you were on about that in the missile thread.

Smething else that I want to make new rules for is diving whilst at maximum speed.  It seems stupid that the planes wont accellerate more.

What I'm thinking is that planes which dive have no maximum speed (we can deal with aircraft and pilot tollerances later  :D ).  However if they go above hier maximum speed then they go down a manouverability band (with low having to pass a skill test to be able to use a manouver card).  They can use thrust as normal to slow down and they lose a point of speed at the end of each subsequent turn.

Once they are back to their maximum speed then they can act normally again.

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 Post subject: First two battles
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:12 pm 
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Good to see you got some games going.  I will post in the missile thread concerning my reluctance to change missiles (even though I dont have the books yet).

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 Post subject: First two battles
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:10 pm 
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Had a third game today.  Again it was a two vs two thundebolt game.  Though this time there was a hill in the middle of the battle field and each side also had a hydra and a Baneblade.  The objective was to cause as much damage to the enemies Baneblade as possible.

Learnt two important lessons in this battle.

One  AAA is only useful in large numbers

Two  Never try to barrel roll at altitude 1.  You end up hitting the ground!

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 Post subject: First two battles
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:40 pm 
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a plane that excess it's maximal speed could very well be destroyed due to forces it's internal structure can't cope with; also, the speed an aircraft can gain by diving is not that much; most of the work is done by its thruster, not by gravity; the gain is mostly what you don't use to stay level; aerodynamics is much more limiting than gravity.

Actuall free fall limit speed is around 400 km  with very good profile in Air IRL; most aicraft won't gain that much by diving alone if their thruster cannot push them any faster.

the rule might may not be super realist as it is, but probably much more than you are implying; but i suppose in AI rule most aircraft could only go 1 point faster than their usual max speed when diving if it was to reflect reality.

A real aircraft that can reach 1500 Kph won't hit 2000 Kph by diving IRL...

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 Post subject: First two battles
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:48 pm 
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But aircraft can gain significant speed when diving.  The best examples of this are aircraft like the Mustang during World War 2.

These aircraft had a max speed of 437 mph.  However even at its ceiling of 41,900 ft the speed of sound is 759.76 mph (gets higher as the altitude decreases).  Yet the aircraft was entering the subsonic zone where the mach cone being to have an effect on its control surfaces, causing the controls to freeze up.

So I would say that a dive can provide lots of speed, aerodynamics is what keeps you in the air, pushing the nose over you do have some thrust in the down direction, but you will gain a fair amount of speed.  Remember rocks fall fast, powered rocks fall faster.

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 Post subject: First two battles
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:01 pm 
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yes but that was for WW2 fighters... you'll see that even in your example, you only gain something like the speed an object can freefall in athmosphere, ie about 400kph at most... while it double the speed of a WW2 fighter, it's not more than +20% for most IA aircrafts (barring bombers, but those can't usually excess their listed speed limit as their structure couldn't bear it)...

edit : rocks find a limit, wich is because of their aerodynamics... somewhere around 200kph for a man (skydiver can't go faster than that without specially profiled thingy), record is around 400kph...

A freefalling rock would fall at around 200kph max, and powered rocks would fall at whatever their power allow PLUS a part of those 200-400 kph; aircrafts have good aerodynamics obviously, so it'll be nearer to 400 kph, but their still is a limit...

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 Post subject: First two battles
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:53 pm 
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A plane that exceeds its max speed will have a problem with its mach cone and control of the aircraft will be lost.  Internal structure is damaged when you make a high G turn and over stress a part of the aircraft.  You can over G an aircraft and it will still get you home - repeated over G-ing or prolonged over G-ing will most likely kill the pilot before the plane falls apart.

You can purely rely on engines to provide you speed, but in a dogfight where being the fastest is not always a good thing (the lowly Tbolt has a max speed of 2200 kph, which at sea level is Mach 1.8)  but max speed is not combat speed or rather max power is not military power.  Dogfighting does not happen at Mach 1.  You use that speed to enter and leave combat area.  In the combat area you have to slow down to 1) keep track of friend and foe and 2) let your control surfaces  actually work.

This is where AeroImp is concerned mostly and thus a 'significant' increase in speed compared to its combat speed, it may not be the aircrafts max speed.

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 Post subject: First two battles
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:52 pm 
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I had my first game today, It was great fun and my orks won DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA. few comments

1) watching a game where one ork fighta flew above it's operational ceiling and crashed and then in the next move a lightning flew off the table by accident was very funny.

2) ORKZYS RULEZ. they put out so much firepower at close range and are so cheap they swarm

3) forgeworld fightaz are so much bigger that the SG Fighta-Bombaz that I've now added turrets and extra missiles and I'm now calling them fighta-bombaz.

4) the SG FBs look so cool swarming around the hugh forgeworld Thunderbolts and Lightnings that I would definitely recommend using them as fightaz.

5) the game is really fast paced, we got two 60pt games done in under 2 hours, and this was the first few games we played.

6) It is really REALLY fun.

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 Post subject: First two battles
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:27 am 
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Ratty, I hope you played like a proppa ork fly boy and sustained fire on any aircraft that came into range, ork or ummies.

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 Post subject: First two battles
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:33 pm 
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We didn't use the advanced pilot rolls.  But I did shout DAKKA DAKKA and there were a few times when my base was sitting on top of the enemy base and they were nose to nose... KAMAKAZI!!!!

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 Post subject: First two battles
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:15 pm 
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MU HA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH ....

A Nover gamez been played. You seez we setz up, we playz all of 2 turnz and all of hiz fightaz were all flamey and deadz bar one.

(That must be a record 15 minute game. the problem with playing orks vs orks, we all dived head first into the engagement. almost all our planes were targeting another at close range, and the dice favoured me... DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA. 3 shots, 3 kills.)

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 Post subject: First two battles
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:14 pm 
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Yay.... we tried a ground attack mission....


THE ORKS BLEW UP BAGDAD*, It was fun, the bombing run was really effective. I then did some strafing runs, it's actually quite hard, there is no way to turn 180 with a high manoeuver as you using a wing over as that alters your altitude, so you have to move straight raise a level the flip over and dive back to level one, which takes 2 turns.

(*yeah, the scenery I'm using is middle eastern buildings)





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