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Marauder - what to test
Quick - 3BP and 250 points 50%  50%  [ 9 ]
Extensive - 2DC, 6+ save, 3BP, twin lascannon, 2x twin heavy bolters (AA only) 50%  50%  [ 9 ]
Total votes : 18

Marauder - what to test
The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Marauder - what to test
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:23 pm 
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There is no 'other', if you want that check out the old thread.

As far as I can tell views boil down to two groups. 1 the quick fix, most likely the above. 2 the more extensive which is adopting FWs superior model.

The second would need more testing, have to arrive at a points value etc.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Marauder - what to test
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:41 pm 
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Err...you know the "Quick" version has also TwinLascannon and 2x TwinHeavyBolter with AA only?

So the choice is between:
3BP with 250pts
OR
3BP with DC2 and with Save 6+

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Marauder - what to test
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:41 pm 
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Its a ref to the last thread, they would no doubt be a bit different in arc and stuff - plus its a new airframe, whereas is two tweaks.

To write it out fully

SG (No way match model) 2 for 250 points
Bomber, 4+ save,
15cm 3BP fixed forward arc,
2x15cm AA5+,
45cm AT4+/AA4+ Fixed Forward arc

FW 2 for ? points (prob 325 or 350)
Bomber, 2DC, 6+ save, Critical crash and burn
15cm 3BP fixed forward arc,
15cm AA5+,
15cm AA5+ Rear Arc,
30cm AT4+/AA4+ Forward Arc

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orangesm
 Post subject: Marauder - what to test
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:07 pm 
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Why the difference in Lascannons?  is this again artificially lowering an aircrafts weapons so that the Flak units can shoot at them before they can threaten a target?

It may be that the Flak units need to be updated and possibly even made just Flak units or have hoard AP/AT to hits.  The Flak Wagon has a 30cm range - probably should be increased to 45cm.  The Hydra has a 45cm should probably be increased to 60cm (Long Barrel Autocannon, not just a standard Autocannon).  The Firestorm has a 45cm range should probably be increased to 60cm.  Artificially lowering the range of aircrafts weapons seems like it is the 'quick' fix and not the solution to the issue there.  AA lacks the range that the background gives it.

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pixelgeek
 Post subject: Marauder - what to test
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:12 pm 
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I'm with Orange

These suppressions of ranges to continue to keep the flak units with these artificially low ranges needs to be solved first.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Marauder - what to test
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:15 pm 
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The AA rules are allready a bit...strange. I tried to discern a pattern there and found some but others eluded me (at least the Eldar ones break the pattern set by the rulebook armies).
I think i should open a thread for how AA weapons seem to work in E:A

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Marauder - what to test
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:42 pm 
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I'm in favour of the 2DC solution.

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ortron
 Post subject: Marauder - what to test
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:12 am 
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i'm in favour of the FW based stats. I'm also keen for the SG model to be Something else entirely with stats that match the model. I'm a big WYSIWYG fan.
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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Marauder - what to test
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:40 am 
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An Il-2? :) (Tis sorta what the sg model resembles, well mixed with an A-10.)

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Markconz
 Post subject: Marauder - what to test
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:41 am 
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No extensive redesign based on FW models please. They need to be introduced as something else entirely.

Keep stats that actually fit the SG model. WYSIWYG.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Marauder - what to test
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:39 am 
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Well, they don't fit the SG model I think is part of peoples problem, they just are a minimal change to the SG stats.

The SG model is armed with underwing bombs or rockets, wing tip missiles/rockets, under chin gatling cannon A-10 style and rear mounted heavy bolter Il-2 style. If like the two real world planes it would be a ground attack plane with limited fighter abilities. In fact I would make it a fighter with very poor AA ability.
Prob
Fighter Bomber
Save 4+
Heavy Bolter 15cm, AA6+ Rear Arc
Gatling gun 30cm, AP5+/AT4+/AA6+ Fixed Forward Arc
Twin Wing tip weapons 30cm, AT5+ FFA
The underwing weapons would depend on what we wanted it for. I'd make it a tank hunter with rockets, but I could go with Bombs easily enough if the FW Marauder wasn't being included in the air list. So either 2x 30cm AT4+ FFA or 1BP FFA

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orangesm
 Post subject: Marauder - what to test
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:50 pm 
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No extensive redesign based on FW models please. They need to be introduced as something else entirely.


What?  This would result in a divergence from the other games that have a model for the Marauder.  The SG model may be the 'original' but it is not what people outside of the Epic community would ever recognize as a Marauder.  The redesign is not solely based on the FW model. It is based on what a Medium Bomber should be capable of and how many points you pay for it.

The current stats actually line up more with the FW model then they do the SG model.

FW Model:
Twin Lascannons, 2 x Twin Heavy Bolters, Bomb Bay
SG Model: Multilaser/Assault Cannon, 1 x Heavy Bolter, 2 x Hellstrikes, Bomb Racks

So it is not a redesign based on the FW Marauder Bomber, it is a redesign based on the idea that the Marauder Bomber is a Medium sized Bomber capable of taking some damage before being shot down.




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Markconz
 Post subject: Marauder - what to test
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:34 pm 
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Nah, the SG model and its previous incarnations have a gun on the front and back and some bombs - don't overanalyse it.  Jervis made those stats for a reason, it doesn't needs to be completely redesigned, just tweaked to balance the list.

Keep it simple. :)

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Marauder - what to test
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:49 pm 
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I don't mind if the SG models isn't WYSIWYG. Important is that it represents the same models as the FW one. Even if it looks more than a Me110 or Ju87.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Marauder - what to test
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:53 pm 
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And it should have nowt armour on the rear gun for penal troops to man :)

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