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Death Korps of Krieg v1.4
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=7887
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Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Death Korps of Krieg v1.4

A slightly updated DKoK army list as per NealHunt's concerns.



Version 1.4?

Changed Rough Riders from 250 to 300 points.

Changed Towed Artillery from 100 to 175 points.

Changed Stormsword main gun from 45 to 30cm.

Medusa given no minimum range for its indirect fire.


Version 1.41-

Leman Russ Destroyer FF corrected to 6+

Leman Russ Conquerer, Executioner & Thunderer FF changed to 5+

Leman Russ Demolisher typo corrected (Added 2x to plasma cannon entry)

Medusa stats rewritten to mesh with the background.

Hydra typo corrected (Now 2x shots)

Gorgon ?gains? Weak Rear Armour special rule.

Current version: Version 1.42





Author:  J0k3r [ Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:26 am ]
Post subject:  Death Korps of Krieg v1.4

Hi E&C, great work.  I think neals suggestions are all quite pertinant and the list is in good shape.  I thought I would also bring across the discussion for ordinatus kreig that began in the painting sections:

New stats:


Speed 5cm
Armour 4+
CC6+
FF6+
2x Twin Heavy Stubbers - 30cm AP5+ (Left fire arc)
2x Twin Heavy Stubbers - 30cm AP5+ (Right fire arc)

   Super-heavy Siege Cannon:
Block-Buster Shell           - 10BP, 90cm, Indirect, Large Blast Template, Only Uses One Template.
 OR
Bunker-Buster Shell        - 1x MW2+, 120cm, TK(2xd3)

Notes: DC3; 4 void shields; Thick Rear Armour; Inspiring; Fearless; Critical ==

1-2 Void shield generators hit, Take 1 point more damage and the void shields cannot be recovered
3-4 Superstructure hit, Take 1 point more damage and the ordinatus super gun cannot fire this turn
5   Ammunition store hit.  The Ordinatus main gun cannot fire again and all units within 10cm take a hit on a 5+
6  Recator hit.  Ordinatus explodes in a fireball, all around take a 4+ hit





Author:  J0k3r [ Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:41 am ]
Post subject:  Death Korps of Krieg v1.4

Hey,

Just had another thought- is it worth having a higher save throw to the front of the gorgon to represent the armoured prow? Mind you I dunno if a 3+ save is warrented....  

Hmmm, thoughts?

Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Death Korps of Krieg v1.4

The aircraft stats come directly from Imperial Armour 3, so I'd prefer not to change them without a bit of playtesting first.

A name change for the Lightning's lascannons could be in order however.

Author:  nealhunt [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Death Korps of Krieg v1.4

I think that looks much better.  My concerns are much the same as far as potential issues but I wouldn't feel confident stating that they are an issue without trying to abuse it.  I'd playtest the list as it is.

I didn't see a model reference for the Medusa.  Maybe I'm just blind.

E&C:  Since you seem to be the resident FW expert, is there a FW model pending for an EA scale Gorgon?  I have to admit that might tempt me back into building an IG force.

===

On a different note, I know you have designs on getting the list to be official.  I think in order to do that you will need to focus the list a bit more, trimming out some of the variant vehicles.  IIRC, the lead-in discussions were primarily geared towards a high-tech version of the Siegemasters and the all-FW-models concept was added later.

I would suggest paring it back down to a tighter focus as a hybrid between Steel Legion and Baran and minimizing OOP, hard to find models.  For example, I love the CI conceptually but I think there is no chance of getting past the list being "a neat Fanatic article" until it's out of the list (or the CI is available again - fat chance  :( ).

Author:  BlackLegion [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Death Korps of Krieg v1.4

Hmm so now convince me why i should continue to play SteelLegion if i can play DeathKorps?
The DK seems to be far superior at least in unit choices than the SL.

Author:  J0k3r [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Death Korps of Krieg v1.4


(BlackLegion @ Nov. 08 2006,15:13)
QUOTE
Hmm so now convince me why i should continue to play SteelLegion if i can play DeathKorps?
The DK seems to be far superior at least in unit choices than the SL.

If you put aside all the LR variants then this is actually quite a focused list.  No SP artilllery (bar the very short ranged Medusa), no chimera mounted company (although the mechanised platoon is quite large...), lacks air mobile troops, SHT are all short ranged, no death strikes.  

I think the list is less flexible than the steel legion list- it forces you to surge forwards to get your short ranged firepower into play- like a ww1 sldgehammer of an army.

I dont think that it is superior to the steel legion list, only different.

Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Death Korps of Krieg v1.4

I didn't see a model reference for the Medusa.  Maybe I'm just blind.

Yep, you're right it's not there... I'll put it into 1.41.

E&C:  Since you seem to be the resident FW expert, is there a FW model pending for an EA scale Gorgon?  I have to admit that might tempt me back into building an IG force.

Currently there are no plans to produce this model, I had that from Tony Cottrell about a month back. He said not to rule it out in the long term though.

A conversion guide would be included with the list as to how to make Gorgons from currently-available GW parts.


On a different note, I know you have designs on getting the list to be official.  I think in order to do that you will need to focus the list a bit more, trimming out some of the variant vehicles.  IIRC, the lead-in discussions were primarily geared towards a high-tech version of the Siegemasters and the all-FW-models concept was added later.

I have to admit the FW-biased concept was my own contribution. The list certainly does have a lot of choice in it right now, so I wouldn't be adverse to a bit of pruning. The CI & StormHammer would probably be the first to go purely by reason of availability, with other vehicles dropping by the wayside on merit after that.

Jok3r's original idea was to focus on SuperHeavies IIRC, after which I went FW / Fluff crazy and made a larger list. :)

I would suggest paring it back down to a tighter focus as a hybrid between Steel Legion and Baran and minimizing OOP, hard to find models.  For example, I love the CI conceptually but I think there is no chance of getting past the list being "a neat Fanatic article" until it's out of the list (or the CI is available again - fat chance  :( ).

I agree on this, I only put the CI in there speculatively when trying to find a suitable SC. The StormHammer too was also only in there marginally due to the scarcity (And lets face it, poor quality) of the model.


In a similar note. I'd move the stormhammer into collectors section of the list. It isn't really needed as there is the stormblade. Would move the CI in there as well.

That would leave only gorgon and pestering Forge about might work?

Agreed a Collector's section is a great place to have the CI & StormHammer. Unless it would hinder the chances of the list gaining experimental status of course, at which point Neal's suggestion of moving them to a Fanatic article is a good 'un.


I'd recomend emailing ForgeWorld and asking for an Epic Scale Gorgon.

I've had one of my requests made into a model before now (The GamesDay Slann model), mayhaps ya'll can too. :)

I'm still waiting for my 40k-scale Dominatrix though. :D


One final nit. The titans. Wouldn't it be easier to chance the pattern names instead of naming the titans?

The 'Pattern' is what the main body of the Titan looks like (Mars == curvy, Lucius == utilitarian and angular), while the weapons configuration is denoted via a name. That's 'hard' fluff and I can't change that.

The two Warhound types (Mastiff & Wolf) are currently-official names, so there's little leeway there.

Radius & Pinpoint are my own names for the Reaver variants however, so we might have some room to manuever there (Even if it's only to find an old-school configuration name that fits the bill).

Hmm so now convince me why i should continue to play SteelLegion if i can play DeathKorps?
The DK seems to be far superior at least in unit choices than the SL.

Your army will be faster and more fluid with the Steel Legion. It'll also be more flexible.

The Death Korps, while it has a lot of shiny new unit choices, also drops a lot of the Steel Legion's useful choices (Deathstrikes, Valkyries, Sentinels, Ogryns, Artillery that can move and fire, the Shadowsword, the Baneblade, AA that can move and shoot in the same turn, etc).

The Death Korps will have a potent spearhead, but it's likely that you'll have a very vulnerable backfield, even moreso than the Steel Legion (Think of a breathrough into the rear of the lines in WWI).

Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Death Korps of Krieg v1.4

Incidentally I'm thinking that the Steel Legion's Orbital Support might deserve a place in this list too?




Author:  J0k3r [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Death Korps of Krieg v1.4


(Evil and Chaos @ Nov. 08 2006,16:56)
QUOTE
Incidentally I'm thinking that the Steel Legion's Orbital Support might deserve a place in this list too?

Or maybe thats another way of implementing super super heavy long range bombardments  :D

Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Death Korps of Krieg v1.4

Aye I havn't forgotten the Ordinatus Krieg. :)

I'm concerned about introducing 100% new units into the army list however, which have neither cannon nor model to be based on.

Perhaps with a conversion from GW parts / bitz codes it could be done, but I'm having trouble finding the right combination so far.





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