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Elysian Drop Troop
vanvlak	Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:05 am
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:52 am Posts: 10348 Location: Malta	True... but then I can't help but wonder how 'rapid deploy' that thing is. Almost seems like you'd have to unload it, then transform it into the appropriate shape and hook up the necessary hydrolics, then man the thing. My understanding was that in a drop force, the Sentinels were grav-chute dropped from lower atmosphere fliers much larger than Valkyries so they could land battle ready like the rest of the force. I remember the para drop from somwehere, and that would make a great diorama - landing Sentinels! No, what I had in mind was a fully-foldable version which you dropped off the Valk from a low height (as in - what are they - LARPS drops from C130 aircraft?), cushioned by paras or rockets, with a very short flight time during which the hydraulic pack would stretch everything open - although I still think a specialised Elysian version would be needed. Specialised as a model, rather than rules (well, beyond the transportability). If only I could draw! PS - I'm begining to warm up to this list again - nice work _________________ Back from oblivion (again)?

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ortron	Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:12 am
Brood Brother Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 1:48 pm Posts: 681 Location: Australia	yeah.. internet access again! good to see some interest in this topic! I really like the idea of expanding the aircraft selection. regarding the sentinels... I'd like to see the MM stay as the weapon, that way they will provide a slightly harder hitting option. As far as the model is concerned i think the FW model does feature a modified cockpit to allow it to fit "theoretically". like the ideas so far. I'll get building in a week or 2 when moving finished! cheers
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Honda

Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:23 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas

BTW: on the planes... somebody posted a 'what if' version of all the planes some time ago... they had all the current 'patterns' of the planes in that document with the appropriate weapon load outs. I used to have a copy of that somewhere... Hmm... Well then, you may be as amused by this as I was. I have had IA3 since October of last year (not trying to brag) and LAST week, I discovered in one of the indexes that FW has created all the stats for the various flavors of aircraft that they make (for IG, that is). So, they have stats for both Lighting versions, a missile armed Thunderbolt, both Marauders, and what I find extremely interesting is variants of the Valkyrie and Vulture. All are listed with "counts as" equivalents. So, once we get the other stuff going, it won't be that difficult to put in the aircraft and then see where we land, so to speak. @Ortron I will drop the heavy bolter from the Sentinel. What about the points, I think Neal proposed a point increase to cover the two weapons, so leave the points as is? Everyone Ok with that? _________________ Honda "Remember Taros? We do" - 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

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The_Real_Chris	Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:38 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm Posts: 8139 Location: London	It is certainly an interesting list - shame I will be getting so few games out here! I would try something along the lines of a turn three mass teleport, at least against a slow army - it might work The only comment/nit pick is the whole drop thing. Teleport is one way but I do like the pre plotted nature of WWII drops. Is it possible to have 'drops' as activations for various/one turn representing the dropships going overhead and everyone piling out? Rather then appearing at the start of a turn you appear on a pre plotted turn at pre-plotted points using probably planetfal rules or something similar, but have the option to hold that activation back until others have gone. _________________ If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com! 'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913 "Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography." General Plumer, 191x
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Honda

Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:31 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas

The only comment/nit pick is the whole drop thing. Teleport is one way but I do like the pre plotted nature of WWII drops. Is it possible to have 'drops' as activations for various/one turn representing the dropships going overhead and everyone piling out? Rather then appearing at the start of a turn you appear on a pre plotted turn at pre-plotted points using probably planetfal rules or something similar, but have the option to hold that activation back until others have gone. Fair enough comment. I suppose that there are a number of ways to manage this. I chose teleport because I wanted a mechanism that was already in place and that I didn't have to justify how it worked. So I opted for the simplest solution, because deep down I usually feel, simplest is often times the best. Especially if there isn't a noticeable improvement from simple. As far as the WW II drop mechanisms go, on the SG board, there were a number of people who also expressed a desire (or longing) for those types of actions. However, my source book (IA3) seems to infer that the troops are either airlifted in or the Valkyries fly to altitude and everyone bails out the back and they glide in on their grav packs. I also don't get the feel for the masses of paratroopers that the WW II actions involved, although this can be a relative thing. In the end, I went for simple as I really wanted to focus more on the list development and not a list + game mechanics that would be debated in endless loops exercise. I think the excitement of a list comes from playing it, not theorizing too much about it. ? So, either someone can accept the teleport functionality or not. If not, then this list isn't for them. If they can accept that mechanism, then an interesting time might be had. _________________ Honda "Remember Taros? We do" - 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

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vanvlak	Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:42 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:52 am Posts: 10348 Location: Malta	The 40K Codex suggests an alternative in tunneler-transported troops. That would be a fine alternative - IF there weren't REAL tunnellers (and models) in Epic. _________________ Back from oblivion (again)?
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ortron	Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:36 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 1:48 pm Posts: 681 Location: Australia	To prevent the 3rd turn rush you could implement a rule similar to that of the early elysian list in 40k, which stated that at least half the army must be on the board by the end of turn 1. This would put a reasonable amount of force on the board, but it would need support asap to stop it getting overrun. Would this be in line with a "realistic" para assault? I think so from stories etc, but i'm not an expert. Using this rule you would have to carefully choose the makeup and positioning of you initial units, and either hold key objectives and hold out hoping the other half arrived successfully or aviod enemy forces until you had built up sufficient forces allowing for a last turn assault. I think what you'd want to achieve is a rule etc that allows the army to teleport yet maintain a significant force on board so that the enemy force has something to fight effectively. Otherwise their is little point playing the first 2 turns of the game. A one turn slug fest doesn't really make for an "EPIC" fight in my mind, i comparison to say a 3-4 turn battle over the same objectives. cheers ORTRON
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Tactica

Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:42 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241

Quote (vanvlak @ 21 Feb. 2006 (01:05)) I remember the para drop from somwehere, and that would make a great diorama - landing Sentinels! where's are local artists? No, what I had in mind was a fully-foldable version which you dropped off the Valk from a low height (as in - what are they - LARPS drops from C130 aircraft?), cushioned by paras or rockets, with a very short flight time during which the hydraulic pack would stretch everything open - although I still think a specialised Elysian version would be needed.

Hmm... somebody would have to land next to it, lose their harness, unstrap gear, mount up, and move out. Could take more time than your tipical hit the ground running sort of grav pac Elysian.

Seems like they took care of this in forgeworld 40K terms even. I think Honda said they addressed this as 1 sentinel was permitted to deploy from valk. SO - I'm OK with that.

I did forget to freshen up on my IA3 Elysian's last night...


Specialised as a model, rather than rules (well, beyond the transportability). If only I could draw!

PS - I'm begining to warm up to this list again - nice work

Ditto - the list just somehow works for me much better at E:A scale. Probably because 1 40K Valkyrie and 1 40K vulture and 1 of several of the 40K fliers (thunderbolt, lightning, and maurader bomber) all cost me way too much money! In E:A, I can field lots of them. Which is my draw to this list actually the mobility in fliers and skimming IG craft + plus the familiar horde of IG infantry.

Almost the same reason I like Steel legion - vehicles - tanks in that case.