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Siegemasters ? Directors Cut?

 Post subject: Siegemasters ? Directors Cut?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:08 am 
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So what does an army champion of a published army do? Pretty much up to them really. Well first off try and actually paint them (I find tournament deadlines ideal for this). Second keep an eye on the armies performance. On the off chance that its overpowered testing out some cuts to that power is a good idea. Of course producing a few articles based around them doesn?t hurt!

In the case of the Siegemasters they are indeed overpowered, so see the recommendations I?ve stuck up on Epicomms and the SG site for the solutions (in essence heavy price increases on the infantry companies).

But after all that, then what? Well, any army is restricted by a variety of factors during development, much like a movie but what if you could change them to an idealised version??.



The Siege armies of the Imperial Guard are not the most glamorous. They can?t fight battles of manoeuvre, their equipment is not the best in the galaxy and any action can be very bloody. But they look darn impressive laid out on the table. Ranks upon ranks of men, brutal looking tanks, wire, trenches and?.. Chimera?

Yes, it?s true. A close inspection of the troops reveals Griffons, Bombards, Deathstrike transports and Hellhounds. The presence of various new super heavy tanks is also disturbing on an aesthetical level. These sleek looking machines are out of place and anyway raise the question if you can produce/supply these why not Leman Russ, regular Chimera and so on.

How to correct this and keep ?the look?. Well the first and most obvious idea is don?t use them. I mean do you really need such high tech marvels when you have the muscle of a 1000 men (and a few Heavy Stubbers)?

The second is available to you old timers out there, or those fortunate enough to come into possession of some of the early Epic models. Previous versions exist of Bombards, Deathstrikes, Hellhounds, Shadowswords and Baneblades. The Hellhounds especially look suitably second rate. A further alternative to the Baneblade exists in the form of the Stormhammer, a far more basic looking vehicle. Griffons present a problem, but mixing the older chimera chassis (used for Basilisks and Hydra as well as a couple of other vehicles) with a griffons gun looks passable.

The third is to use the following, an army list drawing upon those older models mentioned above. Be warned! The original Siege list had problems with being overpowered and any further changes could give you too much of an edge. Any imbalances encountered should be reported immediately! I?ve found none so far but I?ve been playing against those familiar with my tricks and foibles.

The list replaces the Bombard and Hellhound with their previous versions. The Deathstrike is replaced by a V1 rocket style launcher. The Griffon is replaced with an infantry mortar unit and finally Baneblades get the boot to be replaced with Stormhammers.

?Crusade? pattern Bombard
Based on the so-called ?Crusader? Leman Russ chassis (a common Leman Russ variant in use with numerous PDF?s) this somewhat less sophisticated Bombard variant is often assigned to support Siege Regiment offensives. Though defensively poorly armed it does possess better armour than the more common (Triplex Phall Pattern\) and thus well suited to move to an forward position during or just prior to a counter-attack. Designed to have a Heavy Stubber protecting each flank these are commonly taken for use in firepower hungry front units and replaced with lighter autoguns if at all.
There have been instances where an attack has failed and the fleeing dregs of units between the artillery and the enemy are not enough to offer protection to these stripped down vehicles. Fortunately the ability to leave the field under their own steam unlike the often stationary Gotterdammerung Howitzer has normally averted their loss.

Type: - Armoured Vehicle Save:- 5+ Move:- 20cm CC:- 6+ FF:- 6+
Weapon:- Siege Mortar Range:- 45cm Firepower:- 2BP Notes:- Ignore Cover, Slow Firing, Indirect Fire


?Mars? pattern Hellhound
No longer produced on Mars itself this Hellhound pattern dates back to the pre-crusade strife. The vehicle was often employed to burn heretics out of their fortifications and being of a simple robust design was easy to replace. Forge worlds the galaxy over counted these fabrication plants amongst their first constructions. Over the millennia these factories have been replaced by those producing Hellhounds based on the more versatile Chimera chassis. The original plants have been moved to a thousand worlds where they continue to produce Hellhounds of this ancient design to equip local defence forces the galaxy over.
Unsurprisingly such vehicles find themselves attached to the less glamorous Siege Regiments during campaigns, thrown forward to roast the enemy alive and provide vital support for assaulting companies of men.
The tall profile, lack of secondary weapons and volatile fuel tanks make losses high, but there is an advantage in close range firefights as the high mount enables liquid fire to be rained down on troops who would otherwise be able to benefit from cover.

Type: - Armoured Vehicle Save:- 4+ Move:- 15cm CC:- 6+ FF:- 3+
Weapon:- Inferno turret Range:- 30cm Firepower:- AP3+ Notes:- Ignore Cover
And
Small arms, Ignore Cover

Deathstrike Launcher
The ?Deathstrike? is a name given to a variety of missile types by unknowing infantry. Most common is some sort of low yield nuclear fission or fusion warhead, often shaped to localise destruction or focus the blast into buried fortifications and underground complexes. Similar warheads are used for anti shipping strikes by Imperial torpedo bombers. Capable of self targeting, once launched they have nothing more to do with their previous conveyance moving to the target at high speeds.
To deal with high value enemy targets Imperial Guard regiments often can call upon such strikes, be it from heavy bombers, intercontinental missiles or localised support. Tactically having such weapons on hand ensures the fastest strike response with mobile regiments employing the Chimera to keep these assets moving and safe from enemy retaliation. Static regiments sometimes have the time to build silos but otherwise emplace simple launching platforms that can be rebuilt from commonly obtained materials in the advent of redeployment, assigning an infantry fireteam to provide close in defence.

Type: - Light Vehicle Save:- None Move:- None CC:- 6+ FF:- 5+
Weapon:- Deathstrike missile Range:- Unlimited Firepower:- MW2+ Notes:- One-Shot, Titan killer (D6)
Weapon:- Heavy Stubber Range:- 30cm Firepower:- AP6+


Infantry Heavy Mortar
The famous 120?s of the Pavonis 116th are credited with single handedly saving the regiment during an unexpected Ork assault in the course of the grinding down and subsequent defeat of an incipient Waaagh! launched by would-be ?Grand Warlord? Ruzslash Gutgob. With unflagging spirits the heavy mortars fired a months supply of shells in two days, destroying attack after attack much to the surprise of Ruzslash whose fighta-bombers never reported nor saw any evidence of human artillery in the hastily dug defensive lines.

Type: - Infantry Save:- None Move:- 10cm CC:- None FF:- 6+
Weapon:- Heavy Mortar Range:- 30cm Firepower:- 1BP Notes:- Indirect Fire


Stormhammer Super Heavy Assault Tank
Numerous different Stormhammer SHT?s exist, fighting all over the galaxy. Indeed it is rare for any two to be exactly the same as the Stormhammer is a conversion to battered and destroyed Imperial SHT?s to get quickly get them fighting again. Damaged guns are replaced with worn out artillery barrels - weapons whose shells have started falling short or that can no longer be counted to accurately engage distant targets. These heavy guns find new life providing infantry close support in environments such as cities that conventional armour finds costly to penetrate.
A classic example is the attack on the capitol city of Mendeleev, a world that had taken the decision to break from the Imperium in M38.173. For over two hundred years deprivations from Eldar pirates and a rash of similar independently minded systems delayed any Imperial response. When it came it was spearheaded by a Forgeworld fresh regiment of Baneblades and Shadowswords. Crushing all resistance these tanks moved to enact the pre-invasion threat of decimation if surrender was not immediate, something the ruling elite did not entertain following the purges of nearby systems following capitulation. Defences were concentrated in the seat of planetary power with the intent on deadlocking the invading Imperials long enough for Eldar mercenaries to arrive. Initial attacks were disastrous with a dozen SHT?s lost to carefully positioned guns and traps. Supporting infantry were overwhelmed by the considerable numbers of pre-sighted heavy weaponry possessed by the defenders. Salvaged SHT?s were repaired and fitted with captured artillery pieces and numerous close in defensive auto weapons. Firing at point blank the powerful shells demolished position after position.

Type: - War Engine Save:- 4+ Move:- 15cm CC:- 5+ FF:- 3+
Weapon:- 2x Twin Linked Stormhammer?s Range:- 30cm Firepower:- MW2+ Notes:- Ignore Cover
Weapon:- 4x Heavy Bolters Range:- 30cm Firepower:- AP5+
Weapon:- Multiple Point Defences, Small Arms, +2FF attacks
Damage Capacity 3. Critical Hit Effect: The Stormhammer?s considerable magazine explodes. It is destroyed, and any units within 5cm of the model suffer a hit on a D6 roll of 6.
Notes: Reinforced Armour, Thick Rear Armour.

Army List (all upgrades and formation costs remain the same as revised Siege list unless stated otherwise, units are changed on a one to one basis, i.e. 3 Griffons for 100 points becomes 3 Infantry Heavy Mortars for 100 points)
Replace Bombards with the option to take three of either type.
Replace Hellhound with Mars Pattern
Replace Deathstrikes with Deathstrike Launchers and 2 emplacements
Replace Griffons with 3 Infantry Heavy Mortar
Replace Shadowswords and Baneblades with Stormhammers

Note, I could really do with some pictures of the above units on a plain easily deleatable background to make a 'Siege' Codex as it may be a while before I return home and can repair the camera to take pictures of my own models!.
That is pictures of
Griffon mortar mounted on old (2nd ed) basilisk hull.
Old Bombard (1st ed)
Old Hellhound (2nd ed)
Old Deathstrike, V2 (not the swing wing one) (2nd ed)
If you fancy building it the LV Deathstrike!
Old Stormhammer (2nd ed)
Old Baneblade (2nd ed)
Old Shadowsword (2nd ed)
The mortars if you fancy having a go (I'm thinking 1 or 3 to a stand, personally hate the plastic mole mortar model), in fact does anyone know who painted the mortar stand attached, I got it from these forums but can't find it again.

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 Post subject: Siegemasters ? Directors Cut?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:14 am 
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Oh, heres a word file with the above.

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 Post subject: Siegemasters ? Directors Cut?
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 9:05 am 
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So is the current StormHammer rules considered weak? I see you've added +2FF attacks.


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 Post subject: Siegemasters ? Directors Cut?
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 9:55 am 
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? What happened to my carefully crafted response?

Anyway the short version - Yes its fine, but not worth 200 points. As it replaces both SHT's but operates very close in it needed sub Shadowsword firepower but better assualt power than baneblade. Seemed to be okay, but only got to try it a few times.

What do you think of the other units? The bombard has been tested the least (once) but isn't that radical.

We really should meet up at some time for a game of siege vs siege!

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 Post subject: Siegemasters ? Directors Cut?
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 1:53 pm 
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Quote (The_Real_Chris @ 24 April 2006 (04:08))
The mortars if you fancy having a go (I'm thinking 1 or 3 to a stand, personally hate the plastic mole mortar model), in fact does anyone know who painted the mortar stand attached, I got it from these forums but can't find it again.

I believe that is the work of our very own master painter- Tuffskull!!

Cheers

James

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 Post subject: Siegemasters ? Directors Cut?
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 11:05 pm 
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Quote (The_Real_Chris @ 04 May 2006 (09:55))
? What happened to my carefully crafted response?

Anyway the short version - Yes its fine, but not worth 200 points. As it replaces both SHT's but operates very close in it needed sub Shadowsword firepower but better assualt power than baneblade. Seemed to be okay, but only got to try it a few times.

What do you think of the other units? The bombard has been tested the least (once) but isn't that radical.

We really should meet up at some time for a game of siege vs siege!

I agree that the StormHammer does come out as being very expensive. I always use them in my Siege army and they are hardly war-winning bits of kit.

All the units you've listed all seem pretty well balanced I think.

As for the aesthetics; I was thinking about converting up some Siegfrieds into Griffons and Hellhounds - kinda like WWII German Marders maybe.

Whereabouts are you based The Real Chris?


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 Post subject: Siegemasters ? Directors Cut?
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2006 1:14 am 
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Hi!

Nice pic and stand Chris!

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 Post subject: Siegemasters ? Directors Cut?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:04 am 
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Since E&C was asking after it here is the 'latest' (it hasn't had anything done for a year) prettied up version.

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 Post subject: Siegemasters ? Directors Cut?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:44 am 
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Interesting. But some strange formating issues in units description tables.

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 Post subject: Siegemasters ? Directors Cut?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:40 pm 
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Really whats happening? Looks fine on my version? When the laptops repaired I guess i will be open officing them.

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 Post subject: Siegemasters ? Directors Cut?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:24 pm 
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H, looks good.  The formatting issues are with the flavour text columns- no biggie.  

EDIT, sod it couldnt draw it properly.  heres a screen:



Ive marked in red the bits that look wrong- its just trying to aline with the rest of the columns





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 Post subject: Siegemasters ? Directors Cut?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:05 pm 
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Strange, ain't doing it on my screen. I guess a pdf could sort it, alternatively a table within a table.

Oh and something to add - mortars and thudd guns can't fire out of bunkers.

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 Post subject: Siegemasters ? Directors Cut?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:19 pm 
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hey chris - really like the direction you're going with the sieges here. all the modern stuff replaced with shite out-of-date (even by imperium standards) crud.

yep - all the fancy gear used by hi-tech regiments like the steel-legions should be replaced with millenia old crap that has long since been replaced by sensible regiments.

I'm almost not joking here, but I'd almost be tempted to add in some kind of Luftstreitkr?fte style bi planes and get rid of the thunderbolts!

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 Post subject: Siegemasters ? Directors Cut?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:32 pm 
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Well i went back and used WWII fighters as a base at a DO 335 level - though a friend Micheal wants to use WWI bi-planes. I feel that might be going a little far!

The stats I'm working with are - Fighter-Bomber, No save, Cannon, 15cm, AT6+/AA6+, Fixed Forward, Machine Guns, 15cm, AP6+/AA6+, Fixed Forward - Four for 150.

And the bomber - War Engine, Bomber, No save, Bombs, 15cm, 2BP, 2x Twin Heavy Stubbers, 15cm, AA6+, Notes: Damage Capacity 2. Critical Hit Effect: The Bomber crashes and is destroyed - Three for 275.

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 Post subject: Siegemasters ? Directors Cut?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:37 pm 
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Well, bi-planes did make an appearence in one of the Gaunts ghost novels. I do remember being surprised to see them, but considering the context, I had no problem with them there.

I do think it is entirely possible for a really poorly equiped PDF regiment to have them.

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