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To fix the Marauder!
The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: To fix the Marauder!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:17 am 
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Ok, some my remember my subtle 'the marauder sucks' (backed up I might add with good arguements) on many a forum.

However this plane is still dire.

After much discussion, playtesting, twiddling of thumbs me and others came up with a number of options.

Option 1
Make it 250 for 2.

Option 2
Either give it BP3 per plane or 2DC 5+ save.

Option 3
Give it BP3 per plane and a 2DC 5+ save and increase the points to 350.

My favourite options however were the following.
1 - Use the forgeworld model, give it the forgeworld model stats. Have one of two versions. Medium altitude bomber, just has bombs attack, or low altitude, gets to attack with guns as well.
2 - Redo the SG model to be some sort of fighterbomber/weak bomber.
I do of course have stats for all these already done if you want to see them.

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Honda
 Post subject: To fix the Marauder!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:26 pm 
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I would go ahead and post the stats you are proposing so that we can see the full picture of your vision.

I also think that at some point the two FW version should be appropriately stat'd. In the next version of the Elysian list (I'm expecting it to be posted very soon), I have taken a stab at the Marauder Destroyer based on the comments gathered in the Elysian Air threads.

So, we might focus on the Marauder Bomber in this thread so that efforts are duplicated.

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Honda

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Tactica
 Post subject: To fix the Marauder!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:22 pm 
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TRC,

I'm assuming this is referencing the CM Maurader in the book.

There's no question that the Maurader in the book is... well... lacking. :)

I'm in support of utilizing FW Maurader and either dumping the SG maurader in the book, or religating it to 'something else' other than the current Mauarader Bomber.

Note: as honda said, this is not meant to conflict with the Mauarder Destroyer which we've been working on in the Elysian thread. I think we are going to see something very solid and balanced come from that thread and I'm quite excited about that.

NOTE 2: when you are done fixing the Mauarder in the book, you should then work on the Thunderbolt and get that to a FW standard too.

cheers,

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: To fix the Marauder!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:07 pm 
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Tactica the thunderbolt is a fantastic ground attack fighter, whats your problems with it (appart from squadron size?).

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CAL001
 Post subject: To fix the Marauder!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 11:36 pm 
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I like the stats from Imperial Armour 3. Making the limitation on bomb a one shot affair. you can then choose which payload you are going to use. At 4BP each it may be a bit excessive, however it is your choice whether or not both planes drop their bombs.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: To fix the Marauder!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 7:34 am 
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One shot stuff on a vehicle that only a couple of optional things on the board can target is hard to point effectively - you have to point it for its optimum use as that is what can be achieved by a competent player, however thats pricy and no fun if you are not a master of the air tm.

My suggestions in the current rule set boil down to

SG plane
Aircraft Fighter-Bomber 5+
'Aerium' Cannon 30cm AP5+/AT5+/AA5+ Fixed Forward Arc
Heavy Bolter 15cm AA6+ Rear Arc
Twin Hellstrikes 30cm AT4+ Fixed Forward Arc
External Bomb racks 15cm 1BP Fixed Forward Arc
Weak interceptor and light bomber.

FW straight conversion
War Engine Bomber 5+
Twin LasCannon 45cm AT4+/AA4+ Fixed Forward Arc
Twin Heavy Bolter 30cm AA5+ Fixed Rear Arc
Twin Heavy Bolter 15cm AA5+ 360 degree Arc
Bombs 15cm 3BP Fixed Forward
Notes: 2DC. Critical hit effect, the bombers control surfaces are damaged causing the craft to crash and be destroyed.

FW medium altitude bomber - same as above but Lascannon have no ground attack value (so it just drops bombs).

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Honda
 Post subject: To fix the Marauder!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:07 pm 
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@TRC


Twin LasCannon 45cm AT4+/AA4+ Fixed Forward Arc


I understand that you are just porting over pre-established values, but I really struggle with a "bomber" having better AA values than a dedicated fighter aircraft.

Also, if you took that approach, then anything fielding Twin Lascannons, in theory, has a right to 45cm AT4+/AA4+ (i.e. Elysian Lightnings). This seems inconsistent or at the very least awful subjective (not your choice, but whether or not an aircraft gets AA4+ vs. AA5+).

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Honda

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nealhunt
 Post subject: To fix the Marauder!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 3:22 pm 
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As far as the "book" Maruader, I would stick with a point change and leave it at that.

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Tactica
 Post subject: To fix the Marauder!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:08 pm 
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Quote (The_Real_Chris @ 07 April 2006 (12:07))
Tactica the thunderbolt is a fantastic ground attack fighter, whats your problems with it (appart from squadron size?).

Doesn't align well with the standard of a thunderbolt fighter these days.

E:A implimented a long dead version of the Thunderbolt.

Its basically, 'behind the times' so to speak.




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Rob
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Tactica
 Post subject: To fix the Marauder!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:11 pm 
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Quote (nealhunt @ 10 April 2006 (09:22))
As far as the "book" Maruader, I would stick with a point change and leave it at that.

As far as the booked version goes, I agree with NH.

I don't see Jervis approving the booked army's change to the FW representation of the Maurader any time soon.

Therfore, the only thing likely to pass muster is a booked version points reduction.

As depressing as that may be.

Cheers,

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: To fix the Marauder!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:16 am 
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Well, least the points thing makes it worthwhile ish :)

The AA lascannon thing is unfortuently in the main book for the sg aircraft (despite being nowhere on the model). But it has big implications for fighters if you port it over directly, especially since all the imperial planes seem to love it (indeed pg has armed his fighter bomber with it).

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