Tactical Command
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Elysians - Garrison Rule
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=6772		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Honda [ Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Elysians - Garrison Rule
Actually the idea would be to borrow the Eldar non-ability to garrison units, regardless of their inherent abilities. This would be an army special rule.

Thoughts?
Author:  Tactica [ Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Elysians - Garrison Rule
I think this is brilliant.

The list, in fictional history, is not meant to be a forward deployment, reconnaissance, or sit and wait type army.

They are the first strike, the rapid strike elite, in and out, the special forces paratroopers.

I'm absolutely in support.

Cheers,
Author:  jfrazell [ Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Elysians - Garrison Rule
I would support this as well or this option:
*you can drop or you have the option to garrison. To be clear its an army choice. Not formation level.

I submit this option only to represent scenarios where the Elysians have taken their objectives and are now trying to survive the inevitable counterstrike by the Germans excuse me opponents. ?

"Hold until relieved...Hold until relieved..."
Author:  Honda [ Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Elysians - Garrison Rule

you can drop or you have the option to garrison. To be clear its an army choice. Not formation level.


Very interesting idea...let me think on that. For the time being, let us agree to not garrison until the next update.

:;):
Author:  Chroma [ Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Elysians - Garrison Rule
Quote (jfrazell @ 07 April 2006 (18:11))
I submit this option only to represent scenarios where the Elysians have taken their objectives and are now trying to survive the inevitable counterstrike by the Germans excuse me opponents. ?

This sounds more like a scenario to me, I would assume the "No Garrison" rule would only apply to the Grand Tournament scenario, just like it does for Eldar.
Author:  Honda [ Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Elysians - Garrison Rule

This sounds more like a scenario to me, I would assume the "No Garrison" rule would only apply to the Grand Tournament scenario, just like it does for Eldar.


When I first thought of the idea, I did not intend for it to be only GT specific. I intended it to be an army rule because of the nature of the Elysians.

Thoughts?
Author:  jfrazell [ Fri Apr 07, 2006 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Elysians - Garrison Rule
Oh you learn something every day.  Honda he's right, garrison (at least for the Biel Tan list which I always refer to as valid source) limitations only apply to GT scenarios. Of course by their nature its difficult to find eldar units that can garrison to begin with:


The Eldar are a highly mobile army, and rarely have
enough forces to try to take and hold ground.
Because of this, instead of maintaining a heavily
garrisoned front line, they will usually rely on a
screen of Rangers and War Walkers to warn of the
approach of any enemy forces. Meanwhile the bulk
of the highly mobile Eldar army will be held back in
reserve, where it will be ready to move quickly to any
threatened sector. This tactic allows the Eldar to
hold large areas of ground with relatively few troops.
To represent these tactics, only Eldar Rangers and
War Walkers are allowed to garrison objectives in the
Grand Tournament game scenario.


I'd go with the rule then as per eldar for the moment, although I still like the concept of all or nothing dropping. It better resembles the actual drop, vs. the later fighting.
Author:  Chroma [ Fri Apr 07, 2006 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Elysians - Garrison Rule
Quote (Honda @ 07 April 2006 (21:47))
When I first thought of the idea, I did not intend for it to be only GT specific. I intended it to be an army rule because of the nature of the Elysians.

I feel it should just be a Grand Tournament Rule as it would limit other scenarios too much, such as "Defence of an Air Base/Staging Area" or the "Wait for Relief" style of battle that could still occur with Elysians.
Author:  Honda [ Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:06 am ]
Post subject:  Elysians - Garrison Rule

I feel it should just be a Grand Tournament Rule as it would limit other scenarios too much, such as "Defence of an Air Base/Staging Area" or the "Wait for Relief" style of battle that could still occur with Elysians.


Well, since these are scenario specifics, then wouldn't they normally be handled via the scenario itself?

Although I am not trying to infer that the Elysians are more mobile than Eldar, what I am trying to impart to the list is the fact that the (Elysians) are more like Special Forces in that they fly in, do their thing, then are off to another mission.

However, the more I think about John's proposal, the more I like it. As I said, I'll think on this some more.
Author:  Tactica [ Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:41 am ]
Post subject:  Elysians - Garrison Rule
Everything I play... OK, ALMOST everything I play is GT specific, points based, objectives and 2K-5K points.

So if the rule was GT specific, it wouldn't bother me any.

If it allows others to do 'other' things outside of GT games, .

John... all paratroopers learned from Bastone. Paratroopers holding the perimeter line is just bad... very, very bad. :)

Cheers,
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:28 am ]
Post subject:  Elysians - Garrison Rule
modern paras after their insertion (at least in the british army) hold a perimetre for however long needed a long way away from the actual perimeter, reasoning that if they intercept people there they aren't ready to fight and it looks better on paper when you say your perimeter was never attacked :)
Author:  Honda [ Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Elysians - Garrison Rule
I think John's proposal to allow the Elysians to drop or garrison provides for the flexibility that some might be looking for, without "gaming" the operational plan.

Let's face it, Airmobile/Special Forces/Paratroopers/Rangers(regardless of the era) are generally found doing one of two things, dropping into action or walking into action. Examples of jumping into action are "Market Garden", Crete, D-Day among others. But there are also enough examples of where Paratroop or equivalent forces turned into ground pounders as well, Tac's Bastogne example, the WWII Germans use of their paratroop force as infantry in Italy and France, as well as other examples.

I think the point John was trying to make (if I can be so bold as to put words in his mouth), is that what they do is an "either/or" mode of operating, not a buffet approach.

So, I like that idea. You (the Elysian commander) have to commit to a plan. That plan will dictate what you need to do as well as how it should be accomplished. That plan will also give you some ideas as to what type of forces you need to field in order to accomplish the mission.

I'm liking this the more I think about it.
Author:  Cosmic Serpent [ Sat Apr 08, 2006 5:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Elysians - Garrison Rule
I would think one of the main missions of the unit might be something like take and hold a strategic location (bridge, airfield, etc) until a relief force can be brought forward.  They would fly in, set up defenses and wait for reinforcements - which is essentially the garrison rule?
Author:  Chroma [ Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Elysians - Garrison Rule
Here's the point that seems to be being missed:

"Garrisoning" is not a general rule of Epic:A; it is a specific Tournament Game rule only and is found no where else.  So, any rules pertaining to the ability to garrison are, by definition, only applicable to the Tournament Game scenario.

Deployment parameters for any other type of scenario will be defined by the scenario itself.
Author:  Honda [ Sat Apr 08, 2006 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Elysians - Garrison Rule

"Garrisoning" is not a general rule of Epic:A; it is a specific Tournament Game rule only and is found no where else.  So, any rules pertaining to the ability to garrison are, by definition, only applicable to the Tournament Game scenario.


:down:

Well, yes, you are quite right about that. So, I guess that means some verbiage around GT specifics should be mentioned. Good catch.

Sometimes the things in plain sight are the most difficult to see.  :/
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