Looking up the fluff on the Falchion I saw on wiki (dont kill me) that it was also known as the Mammoth Tank and the Shadowsword.

However when comparing stats in the Heresy pack to the SL (Steel Legion) on Traitor App the stats are entirely different.

Is this because (As I suspect) Wki is wrong? or do the stats for Shadowsword in SL need to be revisited with twin Volcano Canon and twin Las Canons?

Thoughts?

I think back in the 80s the Falchion was the original name for the tank, but it fairly soon got changed to being called the Shadowsword.

More recently Forge World released a model and rules for a Falchion, retconning it as it's own more powerful thing and these are what the Heresy list will be using.

Agreed, after HH, according to wiki, when the Chapters re-organised the Falchions were given to the IG who called them Shadowswords. My only dispute is the difference in stats for what is essentially the same vehicle. One needs to be adjusted surely?

Ummmm they're not even close to the same vehicle since the retcon (the fact they've got 2 volcano cannons to 1 is obvious). So in short, no SS do not need to be revisited.

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While historically they were one and the same, in the FW re-imagined Heresy the Falchion is a completely different beast.

So as Jimmy said, we don't need to revisit the Shadowsword.

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So the HH ones remains as a twin linked volcano with better stats? is this decision model based over fluff based?

Obviously not even close to being the same vehicle hence my questioning it, although fluff wise they are the same vehicle that post HH and on formation of IG surviving Falchions a la Shadowswords were re-distrubuted to them.

In stats and power (I know its a rehash), shouldnt the HH and Decimator have their stats revisited if the Shadowsword remains as is?

No. In current background the Falchion and Shadowsword are quite different.

The wiki is out of date and needs to be changed to reflect the newest background, not anything else.

Or perhaps the ability to purchase a Heresy era Shadowsword at extra cost?

If this is purely a rules based question then surely given the fact that the shadowsword is far and away the best superheavy the IG can get in EA should persuade you that no, it does not need to become twice as powerful. I would imagine that it would be a contender for game breaking model of the year(s) outside of the in general stupid powerful heresy rules anyway.

If it's a fluff question then it can simply be explained away as military planners deciding that, in the aftermath of the heresy, having twice as many single barrel Falchions to spread about was better than a few twin linked ones. New hulls would be easy to make, volcano cannons were a dark art even then and thus would not. Given their new role as an imperial guard support tank this would make sense. As it is a Titan ambush predator it's not got much use for the lascannons so they go in favour of infantry defence hvy bolters. In the end it can probably defend itself against marauding infantry companies but the moment MBTs come around it's pretty much toast anyway.

Better yet is the concept that the imperium simply lost the capacity to build the advanced reactors needed to sustain the twin volcano cannon (not to mention the 2x quad lascannon batteries on either side), so effectively even if you used the model in in its original config in M41 it probably wouldn't be able to fire both at once anyway.

As I said on Facebook for your identical post, simply take a falchion and use it in your games (provided it's kosher with your opponent) and call it good. It's not suitable for inclusion in the core 40k lists, as outlined above quite well, but in a friendly game is just fine. It's cool to add a little personalized spin on your army as some ultra rare relic. It's makes an easy counts-as Shadowsword for tournament play/or an unwilling opponent (easy enough to justify as being too old and rickety to power both lasers after 10k years).

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yea like your thinking on this one although 'purchase of a relic vehicle upgrade' might come into house rules once in a while

Not everyone on fb is on taccoms - just like it to be discussed, if its that reasoning thats its over 10k years old so are many titans etc

Why is there no scope to include a single 'relic' vehicle from 30k? or in this instance the fact that fluff is ignored over preferred models with lower stats? in a normal game? IG shouldnt be limited to only 2 heavy tank variants when countless others used by IG exist

Yes but it's basically coming off (and you said it explicitly) you're not getting the answer you want to hear here.

So in order:

No, no fluff is ignored. You're simple being unwilling to accept more modern fluff over older fluff originating from Space Marine 1. The falchions and shadowsword tanks have been retcon'd as being in fact different designs of tanks by Forgeworld when they made the HH series. FW did provide a bit of fluff to ease the newly envisioned legion falchion as the term falchion was often used generically by the Imperial Army as referring to any dedicated titan hunter. Not perfect but it was least something for those that have played the older epic games.

Anyways, each list is based on a theme and specifically for Steel Legion that theme is mechanized infantry not relic war engines. There's little need in the SL tournament list for an up gunned Shadowsword. I'll point out that player just took a win in the highly competitive UK scene with a 12 unit shadowsword army. A falchion simply isn't needed to make a competitive list more competitive.

The SL list is basically the representative list for the prototypical mech guard regiment found throughout imperial space and raised en masse on a million worlds. Relic war engines are simply anything but typical when viewed from that perspective.

All the super heavy tanks ARE present in the lists, just not in the same one. All those SHTs for instance can be found in the Tank Legion list where they make thematic sense (and easier to balance). The two that don't make an appearance are due to the inability of the EA system to distinguish them as they basically becomes the same stats so why bother?

Titans are a poor choice from a thematic perspective as a comparison for numerous reasons. Foremost is that titans are the absolute religious avatar for the Mechanicum and every Forgeworld aims to build, maintain, and field them. The falchion and glaive tanks are specifically mentioned as utilizing materials and techniques that were little understood and designed for the unique requirements of the legions and giant 7foot tall super humans in space amrour

Now a relic list sounds kinda fun and might be a fun thing to have. Perhaps it's a great candidate s an upgrade to the Heavy Mech list?

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Yes ... IMO ... Falchion = Shadowsword ... K.I.S.S ...

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