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| DEATH KORPS: Revision V1.3 http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=29390 |
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| Author: | dptdexys [ Tue May 12, 2015 1:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: DEATH KORPS: Revision V1.1 |
Alf O'Mega wrote: Someone's going to have to spell out why the silo is so OP compared to a Hive Nest for me - if it's garrisoned it's not on the blitz and at DC2 if it gets prepped then engaged, without fearless it will go down quite easily, even at DC3 without fearless it's going down under those circumstances. If it goes to DC2 it should probably gain fearless. Starting on overwatch is strong but against many targets they're going to need their shields to be stripped first which is a mitigating factor. I don't know, I just have a hard time accepting that it's "way" OP even as it is, it seems fairly comparable to the other unit in the game which has similar stats in another horde type army. Could someone please spell it out it in "Deathstrike Silo for Dummies" terms for me? Hive nest and its crew have no ranged weapons at all, players have to pay extra for biovores, dactylis or others to get an effective formation, this then takes the cost of the formation usually to well over 300 points. You can garrison on your Blitz (which you place) so can be hidden from direct fire weaponry and screened by others to stop teleporters getting near enough to be effective or destroyed once they have taken out the silo. Also how many players are going to send their expensive teleporters after a Fearless WE that is on overwatch and will get to shoot with its TK attacks before the assault goes in. You can add a Commissar which makes it fearless and as well as Inspiring it gives it leader so will rally to no BM's if it passes its rally test even from Broken. Normal Death strikes have 6+ armour so any hit is normally going to break the formation, not so with a silo. At DC 3 opponents cannot just ping it twice to break it, they actually have to damage it. Most armies have WEs that do not have shields IG, Eldar even Orks. |
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| Author: | Alf O'Mega [ Tue May 12, 2015 1:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: DEATH KORPS: Revision V1.1 |
Yeah alright - all more than valid points! It will be fearless, that had escaped my mind so that should be taken as a given, plus inspiring and leader to boot. That's exactly why I asked for the the "for Dummies" break down!! Thanks for that! I would say that it's hard to compare a Death Strike for 250 with a Hive Nest plus upgrades, then in the next breath talk about the scouts you'd include to protect it though. But as I said they are all very fair points! I do think DC3 5+ RA FF5+ is worth considering as well but on reflection DC2 4+ RA FF4+ with the special rule to allow it to fire one missile a turn on consecutive turns may well be a winner... I'll get my coat... |
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| Author: | dptdexys [ Tue May 12, 2015 2:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: DEATH KORPS: Revision V1.1 |
Alf O'Mega wrote: I would say that it's hard to compare a Death Strike for 250 with a Hive Nest plus upgrades, then in the next breath talk about the scouts you'd include to protect it though. Ahhh !! it doesn't have to be scouts to protect it. Your troops have to start in your deployment zone so a Inf Co could block the access to the silo from teleporters before moving forward and most lists have some form of scouts anyway (not just to protect stuff) which start using their zone of control to prevent teleporters or drop podding formations from getting to any valuable formations before they advance forward. Scouts do not have to spend the whole game as a bodyguard to the formation they are protecting turn 1, just long enough to allow the player to get to use them. Or my favourite, have a formation nearby ready counter assault the Teleporters, even if the teleporters go first and destroy the silo they are themselves destroyed by a FF counter assault and I have just swapped a 250 point formation for one usually costing 350+. |
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| Author: | Alf O'Mega [ Tue May 12, 2015 2:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: DEATH KORPS: Revision V1.1 |
Alright smarty pants!! I'll get my coat again... |
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| Author: | scourn99 [ Tue May 12, 2015 5:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: DEATH KORPS: Revision V1.1 |
So with this new list now, what would be a pretty standard "go to" 3k points that includes the new silo?? |
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| Author: | Steve54 [ Tue May 12, 2015 5:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: DEATH KORPS: Revision V1.1 |
With the silo being so problematic why not remove it? It isn't integral to how the list plays or is supposed to play and isn't an iconic krieg unit. Can always put it back once the core gorgon/death rider issues are addressed |
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| Author: | mordoten [ Tue May 12, 2015 9:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: DEATH KORPS: Revision V1.1 |
Yes, swapping it for normal deathstrikes would be the easiest fix (partisan_nick will hate ne now) |
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| Author: | Draccan [ Tue May 12, 2015 10:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: DEATH KORPS: Revision V1.1 |
I prefer normal deathstrikes as well |
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| Author: | scourn99 [ Wed May 13, 2015 12:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: DEATH KORPS: Revision V1.1 |
I would atleast like to keep it as a silo. Its a bit unique, and it helps acquiring the model as you can convert out of normal 40k bits a missile silo easily and cheap. |
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| Author: | jimmyzimms [ Wed May 13, 2015 12:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: DEATH KORPS: Revision V1.1 |
+ditto |
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| Author: | novemberrain [ Wed May 13, 2015 12:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: DEATH KORPS: Revision V1.1 |
Can anyone say why this could not be resolved by some small note additions to the Silo unit entry? Something like - may not be given a Commissar and may never claim / contest Objectives... Wouldn't that be a whole lot easier if those are the two "major" issues with it? |
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| Author: | esadous [ Thu May 14, 2015 5:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: DEATH KORPS: Revision V1.1 |
Interesting stuff guys. As a new player to the DKoK I'm realizing I hadn't even thought about putting a commissar in my silo...or garrisoning it on overwatch - although I have been using it as a blitz guard.... I like the suggestion of limiting the unit as apposed to changing it. What if it remained as is but couldn't take a commissar (do the missile crew really need a commissar? doesn't seem fluffy..) ? and or could only contest objectives? As is it seems a fair point cost for 2 shots and a unit that can't run away when threatened or broken. Same thing with Gorgons - If the spam is the issue then perhaps just limit their availability instead of messing with the points or stats. 0-1 Gorgon transported units per infantry company on foot? Death riders I have been enjoying as is. I find the 5+ armor save is an ok trade off for the missing regular attack...but I'd happily drop them to 6+ armor and get that attack back. |
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| Author: | esadous [ Fri May 15, 2015 12:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: DEATH KORPS: Revision V1.1 |
Can someone take a crack at explaining why Deathriders have less attacks for the same points as regular Rough Riders? |
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| Author: | Onyx [ Fri May 15, 2015 6:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: DEATH KORPS: Revision V1.1 |
esadous wrote: Can someone take a crack at explaining why Deathriders have less attacks for the same points as regular Rough Riders? Better armour save and larger formation (for the core choice) and now better Fire Fight. It has been widely discussed over the years that the Steel Legion Rough Riders are a little too good for the points they cost but not enough to warrant a change to a finished, balanced list. |
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