Tactical Command
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DKoK list Champion Nominations/Volunteers
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=29214		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Gwydion [ Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: DKoK list Champion Nominations/Volunteers
Hi! Very good initiative!

I am not expert at all...and dont have the time to do it. But count with me to help testing or proposing ideas or whatever.

Thanks!
Author:  GlynG [ Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: DKoK list Champion Nominations/Volunteers
I'm keen to take them on, Death Korps are one of my favourite armies. I've played with them quite a bit, am very familiar with their background and have contributed various suggestions in the threads.

My main fixes would be the Gorgon's cost and critical, removing single Warhounds and either removing the Deathstrike Silo or making it a lot easier to kill (I'd probably run a poll). I'm pretty happy with the current list and whats in it and would otherwise just make minor adjustments.
Author:  JimXII [ Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DKoK list Champion Nominations/Volunteers
Great idea Rug.
I'd be happy to help playtest it/against it.
I am very supportive of Glyn sticking his hand up for it.
I think Glyng would make a great sub-ac for DKoK.
Cheers
Jim
Author:  Matt-Shadowlord [ Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DKoK list Champion Nominations/Volunteers
<CS Edited>

Quote:
Matt Shadowlord has put in a lot of very helpful work behind the scenes and has reluctantly agreed to stand at my request. We need a few more good people to give the community some choice.


The reluctance was caused by the fact that it could end up being the ultimate thankless task. I think it could be tricky to negotiate a path between making some long-overdue balance fixes and points changes that won't please all of the DKOK fans, while also ensuring that these fixes are applied to key units where required so that the list is reduced in strength but not nerfed to oblivion.

I don't mind whether I get the task or not, so can be completely up-front about what I'd hope to accomplish if I did; the list would remain an mechanised assault army, gorgons would be priced more appropriately and be affected worse by damage, they'd lose free mortar swaps, DKOK would get less toys for their points so 3000pt armies made with the list would be forced to include less men/units/formations, and a number of units that have been mentioned in threads (eg deathstrikes) would have major changes to them.

The concept behind the original DKOK army was great and they did some good work in the Siege book, but time has shown it could probably have used some more balancing before approval.

My goal would be to help make a list that's less mono-build and great fun for players who use it, but also more fun for opponents to play against.

And if someone else takes that job on I'd of course be happy to help playtest 8)
Author:  kyussinchains [ Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DKoK list Champion Nominations/Volunteers
matt, your aims seem ideal, I've got no problems with any of your suggestions, at the end of the day we all want a fun and balanced list, you've got a lot of experience playing them and are suitably placed to use that experience to tweak the balance of the list until everyone is happy, not that it matters one iota but you get my vote! ;)
Author:  GlynG [ Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DKoK list Champion Nominations/Volunteers
Matt-Shadowlord wrote:
My goal would be to help make a list that's less mono-build and great fun for players who use it, but also more fun for opponents to play against.

And if someone else takes that job on I'd of course be happy to help playtest 8)

I strongly agree with the goal and it's encouraging the rebalancing changes you describe above are very similar to my initial priorities too. If I were to get the position I would want to work closely with you Matt and get a lot of input and playtesting – you're a top tournament player with a lot of experience with the list and your competitive edge would be invaluable :)

Just to make it explicit I think where I may differ is that making trench based DK armies viable is also an important, though secondary, goal for me. I believe that rather than the Krieg list focussing on being a mechanised assault army it should be the more generalist siege army it is in the background, which could viably be run mechanised, static or some combination,

For the initial 3-6 months I would prioritise re-balancing and testing the mechanised assault army people have mostly been using. Once that aspect seems sorted I would over a longer period test trench based armies, using the existing version initially and then exploring changes. People complain trench based armies are boring and that trenches aren't very useful in epic as they're too easily clipped. I have a few good ideas I'd want to explore and test which I think could improve this and make trenchworks more interesting to play with and against.
Author:  Gwydion [ Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DKoK list Champion Nominations/Volunteers
Hi GlynG!

The idea about the trenches is also worth, but, why do we need to re-think it when it is already done for the siege masters? Or do you think it would be significantly different in terms of game style?

I tried yesterday a "peculiar" DKOK list without Gorgons, I will post a battle report and give you my ideas.

Best regards!
Author:  GlynG [ Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DKoK list Champion Nominations/Volunteers
Gwydion wrote:
The idea about the trenches is also worth, but, why do we need to re-think it when it is already done for the siege masters? Or do you think it would be significantly different in terms of game style?

I tried yesterday a "peculiar" DKOK list without Gorgons, I will post a battle report and give you my ideas.

Best regards!

That would be interesting. A re-think is needed as virtually no-one chooses to take trenches with their Krieg when trenches and artillery are the DK's standard strategy in their background. I can't find a battle report on here where trenches are used and none of the 9 Epic-UK DK armies used at tournaments took any. I've never used the Barran list and have no interest in it but if testing trenches I should probably try it for comparison. Trenches currently have some benefit in epic, but also signifigant downsides and are particularly vulnerable to clipping assaults.

This really isn't the place for this discussion though, lets end it here and wait and see what happens with the champion.
Author:  Gwydion [ Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: DKoK list Champion Nominations/Volunteers
Agreed, lets wait to the champion.
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