Tactical Command
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Minervans Done Differently
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=26699		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Matt-Shadowlord [ Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:08 am ]
Post subject:  Minervans Done Differently
I've been experimenting with Minervans recently. I expect everyone will know what Minervans are generally like; the sledgehammer of the emperor with massive volumes of tanks, incredibly resilient armour, very shooting-orientated, slow moving, moderate in assault at best, shackled by low activation counts but tough to actually kill.

My test lists have been very assault-orientated, using Exterminators instead of Russes (45cm autocannons instead of 75cm Battlecannons, but FF3+) and using Warhounds from the ally slot to add speed and get around the Support formation restriction.

YMMV as to whether this works, but it certainly suits my playstyle of fighting assaults to control the centre of the table rather than try outshoot opponents from a distance.

I'll post two variants, and would appreciate input and a second opinion on them.

Minervan Assault list - 10 Activations
TANK COMPANY [685] Supreme Commander, Flak Support (Hydra), 9 Exterminator, Leman Russ
TANK COMPANY [565] 9 Exterminator, Flak Support (Hydra), Thunderer

SALAMANDER SCOUT PLATOON [125] 3 Salamanders, Salamander Command Vehicle
ARTILLERY BATTERY [250] 3 Manticores
DEATHSTRIKE MISSILE BATTERY [200] 2 Deathstrike Missile Launchers
SUPER-HEAVY TANK PLATOON [200] Shadowsword

THUNDERBOLT FIGHTERS [150] 2 Thunderbolts

WARHOUND [275] 1 Warhound Class Titan
WARHOUND [275] 1 Warhound Class Titan
WARHOUND [275] 1 Warhound Class Titan


Minervan Assault list - 9 Activations
TANK COMPANY [760] Supreme Commander, 2x Flak Support (Hydra), 9 Exterminator, Leman Russ, Salamander Command Vehicle
TANK COMPANY [565] 9 Exterminator, 2x Flak Support (Hydra), Thunderer, Salamander Command Vehicle

SALAMANDER SCOUT PLATOON [125] 3 Salamanders, Salamander Command Vehicle
ARTILLERY BATTERY [250] 3 Manticores
DEATHSTRIKE MISSILE BATTERY [200] 2 Deathstrike Missile Launchers
SUPER-HEAVY TANK PLATOON [200] Shadowsword

WARHOUND [275] 1 Warhound Class Titan
WARHOUND [275] 1 Warhound Class Titan
WARHOUND [275] 1 Warhound Class Titan

Differences are highlighted in yellow. List 2 loses Thunderbolts (and thus an activation) in order to add 2 Hydras and 2 Salamander Command Vehicles to the army. Hydras obviously fill the AA role in a similar way to Thunderbolts without worrying about enemy AA units. The Salamander Command vehicles are fragile but a bit of a steal for their points; not only is the BTS increased to 13 AV, it also has a third leader for shedding BMs. I know, insane right? :D
However, the list becomes 9 activations and loses its aircraft.

Thoughts, opinions, complaints, flames. Is there even a better list to be had from the Minervans?
Author:  Dobbsy [ Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Minervans Done Differently
Minervans. Yuck! :D
Author:  Matt-Shadowlord [ Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Minervans Done Differently
Dobbsy wrote:
Minervans. Yuck! :D


Anyone who plays space wolves has no room to criticise! :D
But yes I usually prefer infantry as well as vehicles - tanks are great and all, but when using something like Krieg the equivalent assault formations can say 'Oh you put 24 Blast Markers on us? Darn, a couple more shots and we'll be broken!"

BTW as luck would have it, a battlereport with the first of the two lists was just posted:
viewtopic.php?p=507057#p507057
Author:  Dobbsy [ Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Minervans Done Differently
It won first time! It must be broken ;)
Author:  Matt-Shadowlord [ Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Minervans Done Differently
Dobbsy wrote:
It won first time! It must be broken ;)


It did poorly turn 1, was losing turn 2, very nearly lost in turn 3, and then came so close to losing in turn 4 that we were both baffled by the final 2-0 score.
If I wanted to play the whole game that close to the edge of losing I'd just stick with Tau :D
Author:  MikeT [ Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Minervans Done Differently
I'd be very hesitent in dropping the Thunderbolts, as air formations provide a lot of fleixbility unavailable from any other formation type.
Author:  lord-bruno [ Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Minervans Done Differently
MikeT wrote:
I'd be very hesitent in dropping the Thunderbolts, as air formations provide a lot of fleixbility unavailable from any other formation type.


Agreed.

---------------

Why not these tank companies instead?:

TANK COMPANY [675] Supreme Commander, Flak Support (Hydra), 10 Exterminator
TANK COMPANY [575] 10 Exterminator, Flak Support (Hydra)

Full Autocannon mayhem.

I also run Minervans, but I don't have enough Exterminators, otherwise my list would be 2 full companies of them, my favorite tank by far.
Author:  Matt-Shadowlord [ Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Minervans Done Differently
lord-bruno wrote:
MikeT wrote:
I'd be very hesitent in dropping the Thunderbolts, as air formations provide a lot of fleixbility unavailable from any other formation type.

Agreed.


Probably correct. 2 extra hydras and 2 extra leaders (who are also scouts) in the tank formations is appealling, but thunderbolts are always useful, and an activation.

Quote:
Why not these tank companies instead?:
TANK COMPANY [675] Supreme Commander, Flak Support (Hydra), 10 Exterminator
TANK COMPANY [575] 10 Exterminator, Flak Support (Hydra)
Full Autocannon mayhem.


The formations started in that configuration, and then I realised that if I dropped 1 to a thunderer (-10pts) it would free points in the other formation to upgrade one to a Leman Russ (+10pts).
The point of that change is it allows the larger formation to place a BM at 75cm after a move or double. The Russ and Thunderer both get placed at the front to be the first tank to die from their formations so their lower FF isn't an issue for long.

That's the theory; in the games I've played so far I've not found a practical use for the 75cm gun on the leman russ.
Author:  Jaggedtoothgrin [ Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Minervans Done Differently
have you considered dropping a warhound and scrapeing a few points to take another two thunderbolt formations?
Given the likelyhood that you're going to be chasing down broken stragglers, the reach they provide seems pretty useful (plus, it adds an activation to your count)
Author:  Runejack [ Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Minervans Done Differently
After having faced your first list, I think it's pretty solid with your tactics. I'd make sure to spread my two objectives well apart and nowhere near the blitz on your side. My priority would basically be to stay as far away from the two tank companies as possible. I'd try to take out the support with my aircraft as a first activation first turn move like you suggested. My hope would be to win with some combination of Blitz, Take and Hold or Defend the Flag. I think trying for your BTS really broke me!

I understand why people are suggesting to get another Thunderbolt formation, but I really think the three Warhounds work perfectly with your tactics.

Thank you again for the match!

Joel
Author:  GlynG [ Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Minervans Done Differently
List A looks best to me, good list.

I think you're right to keep the activation numbers high. Last time I played Minnervans was using my SMs against Fattdex with 12 activations to his 7 (all 4+ reinforced bar hydras, no air or artillery), made the most of the activation advantage and he conceded at the end of the first turn.
Author:  Matt-Shadowlord [ Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Minervans Done Differently
GlynG wrote:
Last time I played Minnervans was using my SMs against Fattdex with 12 activations to his 7 (all 4+ reinforced bar hydras, no air or artillery), made the most of the activation advantage and he conceded at the end of the first turn.


At the end of the first turn? But the first turn is supposed to be the Guard-Funtimes-Turn, 2nd is where it is all supposed to go wrong. I assume you used Air Assault/Terminators, and he had no scouts.
Even so, that's a quick win vs massed armour!

Quote:
have you considered dropping a warhound and scrapeing a few points to take another two thunderbolt formations?
Given the likelyhood that you're going to be chasing down broken stragglers, the reach they provide seems pretty useful (plus, it adds an activation to your count)


Yes I considered it, but decided warhounds offer a lot more to this army and fill a gap in the list. The manticores chase broken units well enough.
Author:  GlynG [ Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Minervans Done Differently
Matt-Shadowlord wrote:
At the end of the first turn? But the first turn is supposed to be the Guard-Funtimes-Turn, 2nd is where it is all supposed to go wrong. I assume you used Air Assault/Terminators, and he had no scouts.
Even so, that's a quick win vs massed armour!

Yeah, my quickest victory yet. He had no scouts or artillery and all 4+ Reinforced Lemans or Superheavies (plus Hydras and Deathstrikes) but I had no Terminators or air assault, I was using the groundpounder SM army I normally use. Rather than engaging enmass against his superior firepower I played sneaky and made the most of the activation advantage. I saved my important deployment choices till he'd placed all his and put them all right on one flank. There was a lot of hills on the table, which made it hard for him and I hid at the start, alpha striked and wiped out his Deathstrikes then stalled and didn't give him much to attack so he wasted activations advancing forward into firing positions (I think he made a mistake by not putting things onto overwatch). I moved Vindicators in to claim an objective in the middle of a big wood and he sent his one Warhound in which did some damage to them but I counter attacked and killed it. I attacked down the flank with multiple units, shot up broke one of his tank companies, which failed to rally. Going into turn two he would have had 3 or 4 spread out formations to use that turn for the loss of a formation of Land Speeders and I'd have rolled up the line. I'm still surprised he conceded so early though, in his place I would have fought on for one more turn and tried to do some damage, but it was pretty clearly going to end my way.
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