Tactical Command
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/

What's your take on Vultures in an IG SL list?
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=22611		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  admiral_tee [ Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:39 am ]
Post subject:  What's your take on Vultures in an IG SL list?
Hi all,

I'm looking at trying to fit a squadron (or two?!) into my IG SL list, however i can't seem to shake the feeling that there's a better 300 points spent elsewhere.
They have great one-shot missiles, but after that their armament is lacklustre, along with low armour.

It seems they can be used as obvious objective grabbers, but at 300 points it seems an expensive unit to hold back until turn 3 etc.

Whats the opinion from the experienced IG players on Vultures and how to justify their cost and inclusion into an IG SL list?

Tee
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What's your take on Vultures in an IG SL list?
I don't use them. There are enough better options for AT fire they don't quite fit. If you want some fast Skimmers for objective grabbing, you're better off using Stormtroopers.
Author:  admiral_tee [ Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What's your take on Vultures in an IG SL list?
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
I don't use them. There are enough better options for AT fire they don't quite fit. If you want some fast Skimmers for objective grabbing, you're better off using Stormtroopers.


8 ST's plus 4 Valks for 50 points more. Yeah it does seem better - though you do miss out on the 2x one-shot 120cm AT2+ missiles.
I guess the Vultures could be used to strip Titan shields, a 'alpha strike' attack - and that's what you're paying for i guess.

Tee
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What's your take on Vultures in an IG SL list?
Follow on to a comment here, I'd like to expand a bit on why I think Vultures are taken somewhat rarely in a Steel Legion list, and what situations they excel in.

Simply put, Vultures are rare in a SL list because there is no shortage of tank killing or tank neutralizing options. Tank companies and Super Heavy Tank Companies are excellent and durable Tank hunters. Manticore Batteries can neutralize armor, even when they fail to destroy many tanks outright. SHadowswords and Deathstrikes have the Anti-WE slot covered. Except Deathstrikes, all these are persistant threats, unlike the Vulture.

As good as the Vulture's AT capabilities are, they have only a few places where they truly excel. You've identified one - if your opponent is feilding a Battle Titan or Gargant a Pop-up attack with Vultures to strip fields followed by a Deathstrike Launch can be devastating. The fact both are Single Shot means that they synergize well. However it's 500pt of your army that become token activations after your alpha strike, which is a dodgy investment.

The other place Vultures shine is in lists with little other AT fire. Here I'm thinking of lists like the Elysians and EUK's Vanaheim Air Cav, which is another Elysian-type list, but without the option to Teleport - everythin comes in in Valks. Both have severely limited AT due to the light nature of the equipment; your options are Aircraft (Marauder Destroyer, Lighning Strike), Vultures, and (in the Elysian List) Tauros Venators.
Author:  wargame_insomniac [ Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What's your take on Vultures in an IG SL list?
We thought locally that playing Vultures with EA rulebook stats they were overpowered and a must take unit. With the Net EA stat adjustments they were just toned slightly, but still really useful IMO.

I have never managed to get Valkyries and Stormtroopers working properly for me. When I was playing Colin regularly he always seemed to get far better use of Valkyries and Stormtroopers than I could. So I lean towards taking Vultures as I find them easier to use. So they are often the final unit I choose in my 3K SL list.

Cheers

James
Author:  captPiett [ Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What's your take on Vultures in an IG SL list?
WI: can you clarify what you mean by overpowered? Were the missiles not single-shot or something?
thanks
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What's your take on Vultures in an IG SL list?
I too am a bit confused by this. The stats haven't changed from the hardcopy rulebook I have.

Edit: No, wait, I'm not. Changes in Pop-up attacks mean you can hide now.
Author:  Onyx [ Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What's your take on Vultures in an IG SL list?
From memory, the missile range has been reduced from 120cm to 90cm.
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What's your take on Vultures in an IG SL list?
Not according to the compendium.
Author:  wargame_insomniac [ Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What's your take on Vultures in an IG SL list?
Onyx wrote:
From memory, the missile range has been reduced from 120cm to 90cm.

That's what I thought, but as SG says not according to the 2012 Compendium.

What we found with 120cm range was that Vulture could just sit on the board edge, sustain firing and hit something in opposing deployment zone without being vulnerable to much in the way of counter fire.

Yes it is only a one shot weapon. But when we played against Damien he always took at least 2 Vulture formations and 2 Manticore formations. That first turn IG strike was always so devastating that was difficult to come back from.

With a 90cm range the Vulture still has first turn strike capability but it has to advance forwards, at least giving the opponent the chance to shoot back at it afterwards.

Hopefully this is one of the many typos that is being corrected in the 2012 Compendium.

Cheers

James
Author:  Steve54 [ Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What's your take on Vultures in an IG SL list?
This is somethng that was solved by the new pop-up rules.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What's your take on Vultures in an IG SL list?
Indeed, it was proposed to drop their range at one point, but the 2008 rules review changed how pop-up shooting works and now they're not a problem. Indeed they've become even slightly rare these days in my experience.

Not surprising when you're paying 300pts for 4 AV's with horrible armour.
Author:  Kyrt [ Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What's your take on Vultures in an IG SL list?
Agreed, seems unlikely you'd have much choice of targets in the enemy deployment zone by sitting on your baseline, if you're playing with a normal amount of scenery.
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/