Tactical Command
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Artillery Company Thoughts
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=20139		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  EpicBattleBaggz [ Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Artillery Company Thoughts
Hello EA community!

First off, I'm trying to wrap my head around using artillery as a main tactic in a future game. The second is I'm trying this with a Kreig list. I'm not completely sold on the idea of artillery in general in Epic as I just haven't had that great success with it, but I feel this might be a good thing with a DK list since it's much better at assaulting than shooting compared to a Steel Legion list.

I guess the general idea is to have a solid firing base centered on the board to give shooting support to advancing troop formations to take objectives. 600pts is a lot of eggs to put into one basket, but the punishment it could lay down could potentially be awesome. Obviously the artillery will need some support from being overrun.

So I ask you all..
1) What are your general thoughts on artillery companies in general?
2) What do you think the pros vs. cons. are with this tactic?
Author:  captPiett [ Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Artillery Company Thoughts
You're right - it is a lot of eggs in one basket. An arty company is teleporter/terminator bait, so it's not just the 600/650 pts, but also the formations you need to screen them. I've tried using one in my steel legion armies a few times, and it plays havoc with my activation count and never seems to live up to expectations. Multiple artillery batteries often work better, although I find one manticore battery has a good balance of effectiveness and hedging ones bets (if the barrage fizzles out, 250pts is easier to swallow than 600).
Think of it this way: once you get a certain number of BP, all you're adding are templates and BM's - not insignificant, but it's not like you'll suddenly hit on 2's or something, and 3 templates isn't going to help you kill that devastator unit any more than two templates.

The potential of 9BP is grand, but barrages (and shooting in general) can be a fickle thing. A surer thing is to use the artillery in support of assaults.
Author:  Ginger [ Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Artillery Company Thoughts
TRC in his Siegie3s lists had an awfull list with something like 16+ activations, half of which were artillery (batteries, not companies). His view was that Companies are
a) too fragile
b) too expensive
c) definitely not to be used as the BTS formation

The point is that smaller artillery formations can be much more flexible, each add a BM even if everything misses, and matter less if one or two are lost to enemy activity
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Artillery Company Thoughts
I wouldn't take steel legion arty companies, but the Krieg arty company isn't a bad choice by most reports, if your list is built to exploit and protect its power properly.
Author:  Carrington [ Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Artillery Company Thoughts
Similar issue for me with the arty Co: just too much lost in terms of activations. I suppose it also depends on how much you like Leman Russes.

I do find the Manticore Company somewhat tempting, mainly because you're beginning to talk about throwing down 3-4 blast markers automatically when it activates plus the three templates, plus the disrupt. That's the threat of one broken enemy unit (maybe more) on the first turn...

I'm going to spend some more time fiddling with a 3k MantiCO list... I'm thinking, though, that the MantiCO might start intermingled or castled behind an infantry co + Sentinels, etc. or a big BTS mech inf co.... Or maybe behind a Valk/Vulture screen. The other thing might be attaching a fire support platoon to it (along with a hydra).
Author:  EpicBattleBaggz [ Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Artillery Company Thoughts
Carrington wrote:
I'm going to spend some more time fiddling with a 3k MantiCO list... I'm thinking, though, that the MantiCO might start intermingled or castled behind an infantry co + Sentinels, etc. or a big BTS mech inf co.... Or maybe behind a Valk/Vulture screen. The other thing might be attaching a fire support platoon to it (along with a hydra).


That's pretty much how I was looking at it. Meat shield of men and some AA for any threat from above.

Evil and Chaos wrote:
I wouldn't take steel legion arty companies, but the Krieg arty company isn't a bad choice by most reports, if your list is built to exploit and protect its power properly.


And that's the rub...what to support? Infantry Co. with fortifications is a good start...IMHO. ;)

captPiett wrote:
The potential of 9BP is grand, but barrages (and shooting in general) can be a fickle thing. A surer thing is to use the artillery in support of assaults.


That's probably the way to go, but hamstringing the effect of a bigger barrage doesn't sit well with me. I like dishing the punishment. ;D
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Artillery Company Thoughts
Quote:
And that's the rub...what to support?

Trench lines, infantry in depth to support I'd say. Make sure to put an AA gun formation nearby too.

The important thing is to remember to start the arty co. on Overwatch meaning that the enemy won't dare undertake teleport or thunderhawk attacks until it has fired at least once. That's one thing that makes the Krieg arty. company very useful compared to the Steel Legion one: It can Garrison and so start on Overwatch (If you take the entrenched version. The version with Trojans can't Garrison, but is mobile, so it's a trade-off).
Author:  Ginger [ Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Artillery Company Thoughts
To follow on from E&C, if you use an artillery company, you will need to protect it using various strategies:-
- emplacements or other defences.
- defensive formations to prevent teleports and air-assaults.
- location (probably in a corner).
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Artillery Company Thoughts
Rug wrote:
I added a Hydra and Ogryns to my Arty and put a Commissar in with the Ogryns, the guns were 8 Basalisks and 1 Manticore for 10BP T1, 8BP T2, and 10BP T3. Having 9BP is a waste as it's exactly the same as 8.


This has truth, though I personally run pure Basilisks due to my inability to get a hold of any Manticores that I can get to stay together (at least GW styled ones) I have gotten good use out of my Artillery Companies, and usually run one at 3k in my Steel Legion list alongside the two Tank Companies. Yes, that's 2k in those three formations, but it works. Though Minervans higher activation count works better. Regardless, they are a very potent formation, able to dish out a lot of pain to an INF formation, and at least hamper an AV formation.
Author:  Moscovian [ Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Artillery Company Thoughts
I've seen artillery used effectively in certain games. Boards where you play lengthwise have successful artillery. Artillery in larger than 3000 point games do well where there is an array of formations. Like many expensive formations (ex. Warlord titans) the ability to increase your activation count seems to be the common bone. In other words, I don't think this is a problem with artillery per se , just expensive formations.
Author:  EpicBattleBaggz [ Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Artillery Company Thoughts
Yeeeeeah...I think I was letting the thought of mass BOOM go to my head. This tournament coming up in April is really starting to get to me...can't make up my mind.
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Artillery Company Thoughts
DO IT! I'd bring a Manti Company to Adepticon, but it'd reduce me to 6 activations... urgh. Two batteries'll have to do.
Author:  EpicBattleBaggz [ Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Artillery Company Thoughts
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
DO IT! I'd bring a Manti Company to Adepticon, but it'd reduce me to 6 activations... urgh. Two batteries'll have to do.


Ahhhh...future competition! :o

Look into my eyes...tell me everything you know...you want to tell me everything you know...you are getting sleepy...you will roll all 1's...you want to tell me all your stratagem and battle plans...tell me everything you know... :P
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Artillery Company Thoughts
EpicBattleBaggz wrote:
...you will roll all 1's...


You don't need hypnosis for that!
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