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Emperor Class Battleship
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=17611		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  frogbear [ Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:59 am ]
Post subject:  Emperor Class Battleship
Has anyone ever taken the Emperor Class Battleship?

If someone did take it, why?

Also, if you did take it once, did you take it again?

I cannot fathom why the IG would pay 300 points for this spaceship.

Is there something that I am not seeing here?
Author:  GlynG [ Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:01 am ]
Post subject:  Emperor Class Battleship
Not that I'm aware off... spacecraft are often neglected in epic for some reason, poor things.

I don't think either imperial spacecraft is a good option at all at the moment and I'm not aware of anyone ever taking them. I'd be in favour of a amendment to make them a bit better; not to make them an amazing choice, but an only slightly sub-par one that you might take occasionally would be good.

Maybe a points drop to something like 225-275pts? I know Epic-UK dropped the points for one of the Ork ships (which I think we then copy-catted here) so I was really very surprised when the imperial ships remained unchanged there.
Author:  frogbear [ Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Emperor Class Battleship
Quote: (GlynG @ Jan. 07 2010, 18:01 )

I don't think either imperial spacecraft is a good option at all at the moment and I'm not aware of anyone ever taking them. I'd be in favour of a amendment to make them a bit better; not to make them an amazing choice, but an only slightly sub-par one that you might take occasionally would be good.

:agree:
Author:  Honda [ Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:28 am ]
Post subject:  Emperor Class Battleship
I think people would be more inclined to take the big ships if they could come on in Turn 2 vs. Turn 3, but that's another issue. It's just too risky for regular game play right now.

I'm about the only person who ever takes spacecraft in my lists and it's usually the Tau Hero or the SM Strike Cruiser.
Author:  Jeridian [ Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Emperor Class Battleship
The SM Strike Cruiser is well worth it because SM's have the option to replace Drops Pods with Rhino's or be in a Thunderhawk.
So when you write a Marine list with a Strike Cruiser the option of Planetfall is always there, but you don't have to use it every game.

The Chaos SM ship is another good buy because it's 150pts and includes Pinpoints, Bombardments and option for Drop Pods (though you have to pay extra).
Chaos relys on the Daemon bomb, Planetfall is a great way to land in the middle of the enemy.
Chaos lacks Titan Killer shots- the Pinpoint is great for taking out Shadowswords, etc.

The Lunar class- no drop pods, Pinpoint but you have Shadowswords to do that every turn, Bombardment but you have decent artillery.

Battleships- the turn 3 thing is the killer. Your paying around 300+pts for one shot late in the game.
Even worse, if I'm Marines and you bring a Battleship I'll happily bring the Strike Cruiser on turn 3, forcing you to turn 4, and potentially never using it.
Author:  GlynG [ Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Emperor Class Battleship
Maybe slow and steady should be usable from turn 2 rather than 3? 300 points for a spacecraft that attacks once and can be potentially be blocked from taking part in the battle at all if it only goes on for 3 turns does seem like a extremely poor choice.

Are there any slow and steady craft that are used now? Marine battlebarge ever taken and would it get too good if it were turn 2 capable? If it should prove a problem could always adjust slow and steady to being turn 2 if not transporting, turn 3 if it is transporting.
Author:  Morgan Vening [ Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Emperor Class Battleship
Quote: (GlynG @ Jan. 11 2010, 15:24 )

Maybe slow and steady should be usable from turn 2 rather than 3? 300 points for a spacecraft that attacks once and can be potentially be blocked from taking part in the battle at all if it only goes on for 3 turns does seem like a extremely poor choice.

Are there any slow and steady craft that are used now? Marine battlebarge ever taken and would it get too good if it were turn 2 capable? If it should prove a problem could always adjust slow and steady to being turn 2 if not transporting, turn 3 if it is transporting.

I think it's the Turn 2 drop, more than the firepower, that concerns people.

Especially with the recently confirmed "multiple drop zones", I can see it being a big issue.

Morgan Vening
Author:  Morgan Vening [ Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Emperor Class Battleship
Quote: (Rug @ Jan. 11 2010, 15:51 )

Marine Battle Barges are the only Slow and Steady ship I've seen used and it prooved to be very effective, I seem to remember the army won a couple of tournaments or at least did well. I'm not sure if the turn 2 arrival and drop would actually be any better as the attackers have less time to harass with aircraft and vanguard units to spread blast markers and it's harder to predict where the enemy will be. The defender has fewer opportunites to fail actovations and  a turn to recover after the initial shock.

It woundnt be too difficult to test a Battle Barge on turn 2, I don't think the other ships would benefit too much either.

Though I'll admit, I can't think of a more boring army to play with/against, than a Turn 3 Drop or Teleport army. I've played with one, and against one, and it becomes a big toss-up. Yes, strategy and out-thinking your opponent is still a factor, but it microcosm's the game.

It'd like playing Chess and having the game conclude after ten turns, regardless of the state of the table. Or a more accurate analogy, White preplots where all his pieces go, Black gets to make 10 moves of his choice, then White is placed on the board.

I'm not sure if there could be some form of early game 'checkmate' situation, where the game is ended early if insufficient resources remain, but Turn 3 Blitz seems like such a waste of a session.

Morgan Vening
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Emperor Class Battleship
Hey Rug yer PM box is full.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Emperor Class Battleship
Ack!  :grin:
Author:  Jeridian [ Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Emperor Class Battleship
Drop Podding may seem brutal, but it isn't an auto-win.

Those 2 turns the Marine player has had very little on the board (all sat in Battle Barge) you have the time to turn 1 rush into favourable positions around objectives and cover, turn 2 set everyone in Overwatch.

Drop Pods can't land in ZoC, with use of Scout and just simply spacing your armies correctly, you can  create quite a large area of denial (a single IG infantry company can spread out over a considerable area) for landings.

They can predictably be expected to land on your Blitz, so either castle immensely as above, or leave it empty. Rush to their Blitz and objectives and save a fast formation to contest your's after they've landed.

There's a lot of ways to hurt the Drop Podder, but I agree it can get boring if most of your army is tied up in this turn 3 drop. I've been guilty of it, especially against Eldar (with their hit and run and ridiculous AA, planetfall was the only way to catch them out), but I tend to restrict it to 1-2 formations whilst most of my army Air Assaults, etc.
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