hi all,
I am toying with the Minervan list for a comp, and added in a supreame commander.  they went looking for the rules for the 'Upgraded Guns'

couldn't find them.  

what are the rules for the Upgraded guns?

cheers

_________________
"The Dice are killing me!"

Upgraded Guns grant +1 FF attack.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

cool that would be good if it were also in the lists somewhere.  no doubt it will get asked if I take them.

_________________
"The Dice are killing me!"

It should be in the list somewhere!

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

The rules are in the Supreme Commander entry in Raiders.

Upgraded Guns      (15cm)      Small Arms    Extra Attacks(+1)

_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

Doesn't a normal Sup commander get the + 1EA normally any way.  So wouldn't the Upgraded Guns, therefor be a bit redundant.

This is just to make it read easier, nobody really needs to see the upgraded guns part, but they just get the +1EA in FF and CC.

cheers
Floppy

_________________
"The Dice are killing me!"

Normal supreme commanders are an infantry stand, not a character, so don't give any extra attacks. They also don't have an extra FF attack.

"upgraded guns" is just the name of the weapon which gives +1 FF attack. All weapons have names in epic.

_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

No. In fact, there is no 'normal' Supreme Commander character. The Supreme Commander in the Steel Legion list is a unit in and of itself. Among its weapons is one that gives it an extra attack, but that's an attack in close combat, not firefight. Almost all the other Guard lists also have a dedicated Supreme Commander unit rather than a character upgrade.


Well, no. The usual way of noting that a character grants an extra attack to the unit it accompanies is by giving it a weapon with the 'Extra Attack' quality. In this case that weapon is called 'Upgraded Guns'. Any other character that provides extra attacks is the same.

_________________
"Good ale, the true and proper drink of Englishmen. He is not deserving of the name of Englishman who speaketh against ale, that is good ale."
- George Borrow

Giving extra attacks without a weapon name would require a special rule, and that just really isn't worth it.

_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

True.  But having upgraded guns does the same thing.  I played a game last night where I was asked 'What does Upgraded guns do?'
then after telling my op.  the question 'Where does it say that!'

what I really am pointing out, if a list has something that is no where else it needs to be stated what it does, just so it reads easy.  also remembering that not everybody is a member of this forum as well, so not everybody has read all this.

cheers

_________________
"The Dice are killing me!"

Anywhere it states that something has 'upgraded guns', it should also state what those do.

Where does it the former but not the latter occur?

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

We are using the download that chroma has compiled.

all it says is Upgraded Guns      (15cm)      Small Arms    Extra Attacks(+1)

So my Op thought that it meant CC not FF only. After all it is not stated any where what Upgraded Guns do other than Extra Attacks.

With the small arms rule my op thought they could do FF and CC extra attacks as per the rule.

2.2.3 Extra Attacks
Some assault and close combat weapons are noted as having
extra attacks (+x). Units armed with these weapons receive a
number of extra attacks equal to ‘x’ during an assault. For
example, an assault weapon noted as having ‘extra attacks
(+2)’ would allow the unit using it to make two extra close
combat attacks in an assault. Sometimes the entry will specify
a dice roll rather than a fixed number. For example, a weapon
that had ‘extra attacks (D3)’ would attack D3 times each time
it attacked. Extra attacks can apply to shooting attacks, close
combat attacks, and firefight attacks

If Upgrade Guns is meant for FF only then it should be stated.

just remember I am tring to make sure that the list reads so people dont get questions they dont know the answer to.

_________________
"The Dice are killing me!"

" (15cm)      Small Arms" already states that it is a FF-only attack. A CC-attack would state "(base contact) Assault Weapon"

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/

The 'small arms' note means it is FF only. So it's already stated.

If it was also usable in Close Combat, it would also state 'Assault Weapons'.


That's a standard rule of Epic, that 'small arms' means Firefight and 'Assault Weapons' means Close Combat.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Also remember that Chroma's list is a draft and many of them that he has posted have BIG errors.  Unless you are very familiar with the lists, I would hold any numbers suspect.  

Instead use the actual Minervan list; you can follow the link in my signature if you don't already have it.

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.