Okay, just to focus the topic and not let it get lost in the Cadian Call to Arms, I'd like to discuss the Capitol Imperialis and Leviathan.

So, should they be two, distinct "crawlers" for the Guard, or they the "same" thing, just one's a Commander and the other a Supreme Commander?

I do realize they had radically different models back in the day, but in any mention of current flavour text, are they similar or very different?

And then there's the whole matter of stats that we all can agree upon.

So, light the reactor and let's hammer this out!

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

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Two models, two units.  With so little at the disposal of the Epic player, it makes sense not to dilute these models.  Besides, the fluff is very distinctive on the Leviathan from what I've read.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

I'm with Mosc, two models, two units. Per fluff they had different roles.

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"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

Can you define/express those roles, DS?

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Sure can.

The Leviathan provides Command and Control for an IG army. In SM2 it acted like a Company Commander. For E:A it could be Supreme Commander. It also happens to be armed to the teeth!

The Capitol Imperialis is a huge APC with not insubstantial firepower. In SM2 it could carry two full companies of IG.

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"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

Would the Leviathan itself be the "supreme commander" or is it more of a mobile base/transport for a command company?

Would a single regiment have more than one available?

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

By coincidence, I was just going through some threads to start a discussion on the whole Leviathan-CI-Fortress-Basilica issue.  I think it would behoove us to discuss some overall concepts.  In reviewing the threads, there seem to be some consensus opinions even though the implementations vary.  These are very general summaries of what seems to be the prevailing thought.


Leviathans: 4-6 DC, 0-2 void shields, MW barrage, Battle Cannon, 6 gun mounts, 4+RA, TRA, very good FF/CC (usually 3+ for both), Transport 14-20 units (no vehicles).  Point cost in the 400-500 range.

Conceptually the Leviathans seem to be ultra-heavy duty transports and a bigger, badder, SHT.  The Squat/Demiurg variants are on the tougher end of the range and/or upgunned.  DS's old school description is accurate; it had more of a command/control focus.  EA versions seem to replace that with more of a "transporting the SC formation" emphasis.


Capital Imperialis (Inquisitorial Fortress and SoB Basilica are similar in stats and role):  10-12 DC, 0-5 void shields, large-ish barrage with special ability, secondary weaponry roughly equal to 1 titan weapon,  4+RA, TRA, good FF/CC value (4+ or 5+), Transport 15-20 units plus ~3 vehicles, usually Supreme Commander, abilities for mounted units to fire/CC/FF.  Point cost in the 500-700 range.

Conceptually, Capital Imperialis and variants are major mobile command centers, though they also scale up the leviathan transport and WE/SHT abilities.  Again, DS's old school description of a super transport (I believe it could even transport a SHT company in SM2) is accurate.  That seems to be almost universally rewritten (from Jervis' lead) in the recent versions.

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Neal

Yes, that's more the case. The Leviathan carries the company commander along with a host of communications gear. In SM2 a Leviathan is a special card, which means you could only have one per company, but you could have more than one. However I don't recall ever playing a game where someone had more than one Leviathan in his army.

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"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

I guess the Nurgle Plague Tower would be of conceptual similarity, and it already exists in the rules.

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Heh.  I hadn't thought of the Plague Tower similarity before.  A Nurgle Leviathan/Plague Tower conversion sounds cool.

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Neal

I agree with two models, two units.

Two models. As someone said, don't dilute.
And the Leviathan is such a wonderful model too.
And the Imperial Guard really should have it back.

(Squats have them both as company and special card.)

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so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641

Okay, I'll make an effort to include the Leviathan in "Black Crusade"... so, now we need to agree on stats!  

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Hena, do I look like an idiot?  A rich, rich idiot who could afford a Capitol?  

And I was talking about the Leviathan as "definitely" in the book.

Honestly, I don't think *either* model would be a supreme commander, but either might possibly *benefit* an Imperial Supreme Commander who's riding in it; something similar to the Marine "command" tanks in other lists.

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?