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Imperial Guard Infantry regiment
The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Imperial Guard Infantry regiment
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:00 am 
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To save other threads here is a dedicated one.

As this is Guard month it could be the time to start a new regiment. Sadly there are other more developed, only a month and limited time.

If everyones really keen and can actually get playtests in, don't let me stop you.

Key problems to overcome would include how to attack. You can build quite a good looking army (indeed 'proper' WWII) infantry wise with the model range (infantry, command, fire support, mortars, sabre platforms, stationary arty and flak from FW, exotic stuff etc).

Only problem is, is how to build it so it is good enough to attack and not to good at sitting stationary and blazing away.

Popcorn list could try and swarm the enemy (but is that guardy?), big formations with guard weapons would be different to say orks being slower (no auto double), shootier (autocannon or equivalent) and not as resilant (no save, far less leader) leading to more turtling.

A good starting point for me is the WWII British infantry company. In epic using the steel legion list with a company, sniper section, extra platoon and support platoon!.

So maybe have such upgrades as standard (for a base company for 450-500?)? Could also have a 'Guards' company (the tall fellas) for a bit of muscle?

Alternatively could do a Cadian infantry force, allowing for 6+ saves and better infantry (with karskin - guards by another name!).

Something else to consider is initiative. Should it be 3+ for big infantry formations? Though I feel this simply encourages static uses.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Imperial Guard Infantry regiment
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:07 am 
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Oh this is a Brit infantry bat




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epilgrim
 Post subject: Imperial Guard Infantry regiment
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:47 am 
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just reposting here:

A simple way to do all infantry would be to allow the player to take barebones infantry companies as ind-for.

Another simple change would be to allow the player to select more than one of each support choice, although to prevent heavy weapons team and ogryn abuse you would want to limit it to max two.

Lastly, force them to have a commissar in every company (point cost too), but maybe allow an extra one if they take no vehicle support.

Keep in mind that these formations will get buried quick without AA capability. So maybe a special type of inf AA unit could be worked up?

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rose4100
 Post subject: Imperial Guard Infantry regiment
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:49 am 
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something like an infantry unit with a shoulder mounted stinger missile

Upgrade
[Anti Air Troopers] Two for 50pts
Armour - CC6+ FF6+
Weapon            Range           Firepower
Stinger Missile     30cm           AT6+/AA6+




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Chroma
 Post subject: Imperial Guard Infantry regiment
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:59 am 
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(epilgrim @ Jun. 02 2008,01:47)
QUOTE
Keep in mind that these formations will get buried quick without AA capability. So maybe a special type of inf AA unit could be worked up?

Why not just rely on air support from T-bolts and such?

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epilgrim
 Post subject: Imperial Guard Infantry regiment
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:09 am 
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Why not just rely on air support from T-bolts and such?


that's rather expensive, only works with limited coverage and if you fail to activate, not at all.

I would rather have a hydra anyday.

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rose4100
 Post subject: Imperial Guard Infantry regiment
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:19 am 
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but i think Real Chris is trying to get away from vehicles in general. An infantry only list which would mean no t-bolts or hydra. So an infantry AA option is needed.

Maybe a static anti air nest? A sandbag foxhole with Sabre Platforms dug in? But i'm more towards the idea of a mobile AA infantry unit.

[edit]
What about the idea of 'deployable' AA turrets? They are infantry which can deploy (an action) and next turn be basically a static hydra with a cover save (digging a foxhole and sand bag wall). Drop half a dozen of these around the battlefield and you have decent AA coverage. Granted that you would move your infantry respectively, operating in the 'safe zones'.




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Legion 4
 Post subject: Imperial Guard Infantry regiment
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:13 am 
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Well if you don't take vehicles, you're going to have to walk ... as well as limit your ability to deploy heavy firepower.  On the game board, leg infantry, can find itself at a disadvantage, in some situations.  I lead a Rifle plt in the 101 and later a Mech Co, in 197th Mech Bde, both types of units approach missions in different ways.  However, the last 100 yards are pretty much the same.  But in both cases, they depend on CAS, ADA and FA to keep their losses to a minium ...  I think a dismounted infantry unit without any support on the Epic board is going to have a hard time, IMO ...

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Imperial Guard Infantry regiment
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:02 am 
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Modern forces would have fighters, however WWII ish (which is almost 40k) had organic flak, at least until mid war - by which point assets were handled differently. But Epic is a bit different. The Brits used a variety of flak from jeeps with machine guns to wheeled carriages towed by trucks.

Oh heres some arty info.

Divisional Artillery

Headquarters, Divisional Artillery

Three Field Regiments - each with twenty four guns/howitzers divided into two Batteries, with three Troops of four guns per Battery.

Anti-tank Regiment - with forty eight 2-pdr anti-tank guns, divided into four Batteries, with three Troops of four guns per Battery.

Arty wise batteries of 4 stationary and companies of 12 could be interesting and fit the fw habit of two to a pack.

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epilgrim
 Post subject: Imperial Guard Infantry regiment
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:30 am 
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(rose4100 @ Jun. 02 2008,03:19)
QUOTE
but i think Real Chris is trying to get away from vehicles in general. An infantry only list which would mean no t-bolts or hydra. So an infantry AA option is needed.

Maybe a static anti air nest? A sandbag foxhole with Sabre Platforms dug in? But i'm more towards the idea of a mobile AA infantry unit.

[edit]
What about the idea of 'deployable' AA turrets? They are infantry which can deploy (an action) and next turn be basically a static hydra with a cover save (digging a foxhole and sand bag wall). Drop half a dozen of these around the battlefield and you have decent AA coverage. Granted that you would move your infantry respectively, operating in the 'safe zones'.

Actually, if I had my choice and the intent was to go for an all infantry army, I rather like your idea of a dedicated AA fire team. That was along the lines of what I was thinking.

The comment about the hydra was if I had the choice between that or relying on aircraft, and I don't think aircraft AA cover, at least in Epic, would work as well as ground units.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Imperial Guard Infantry regiment
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:59 am 
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Alternatively could do a Cadian infantry force, allowing for 6+ saves and better infantry (with karskin - guards by another name!).


Kasrkin are actually Storm Troopers by another name, so they'd have a 5+ save.

The normal Cadian guard would get no save as they have the same armour as a Steel Legionairre, whilst Conscripts would definitely get no save.

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Mephiston
 Post subject: Imperial Guard Infantry regiment
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:01 pm 
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Well Thudd guns and mole mortars could provide the arty options. I guess sentinals and rough riders would have to provide the 'mobile element' unless you give them some form of light tank. But then you have created siegers without bunkers.

I think all epica armies should have access to air/titans, it gives the combined arms feel to the game.
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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Imperial Guard Infantry regiment
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:03 pm 
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Conscripts have the same equipment as regular Infantry. Only their BS, WS and Leadership is worse and they have no Sergeant to lead them.

Else E&C has it right :)




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Imperial Guard Infantry regiment
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:14 pm 
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I think the Tallarn Light Infantry army list from Imperial Armour III would be a good template, rather than creating a new army list from thin air.

In that army, a typical company looked like this:

1 Captain
7 Lieutenants
29 Sergeants
292 Other Ranks

1 Commissar
5 Priests


For vehicles they had:
3 Sentinels
1 Samaritan

The company had (8) missile launchers and (6) mortars as their most prominent support weapons, but notably also had 25 Snipers.

Tallarns like Snipers. :D

Also, perhaps allow Sentinels as an attached Company Upgrade?





The entire Regiment had ~10,000 personell, and for total vehicle strength had :

48 Basilisks
6 Bombards
12 Griffons
20 Hydras
50 Chimeras
150 Sentinels
39 Leman Russ


They also had 195 Rough Riders, riding a mixture of horses and Mukalii.



So we're looking at a regiment that has vast reserves of infantry, quite a lot of Rough Riders, but only a few vehicles ; Their most prominent vehicle is the Sentinel.


Companies would basically be only the Infantry Company & HQ Infantry Company, and perhaps the Mechanised Inf company.

Support Formations would include:
- Artillery Company
- Sentinel Squadron (Perhaps Sentinel Company?)
- Hydra Squadron
- Leman Russ Tank Platoon (6x Leman Russ)
- Rough Riders (Xeno Mounts give them a 4+ save)


Upgrades would include:
- Sentinels
- Leman Russ
- Bombards(?) / Griffons
- AA SABRE platforms (Garrisonable)
- Fire Support Teams
- Mortars



Notably the Tallarn use lots of different types of Sentinel ; They use Rocket Launcher bombardment Sentinels (1bp each, 30cm range?) and missile launcher sentinels which can fire indirect (AP5+ / AT6+, 45cm, indirect).




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J0k3r
 Post subject: Imperial Guard Infantry regiment
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:16 pm 
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ON another note- large footslogging infantry companies and static artillery; why not just use the DKOK list and go AV light?

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