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Net EA Steel Legion
The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Net EA Steel Legion
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 12:05 am 
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So, how divergent? It gets the wish list of changes, question is, does it go further? Include both types of Sentinel? Use the forgeworld marauder bomber (and for that matter the fighter)? Should it include the Mars pattern shadowsword to match the baneblade? Should it as BL says below be more steel legion ish, so dropping Ogryns and rough riders for instance?




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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Net EA Steel Legion
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 12:08 am 
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The question for me is: Should it be a generalised Imperial Guard army list as in the Epic Rulebook or should it be the Armageddon Steel Legion which is a Mechanised Imperial Guard Regiment without Ogryns and Rough Riders. Basically my Steel Legion PDF :D

EDIT: Oh damn...just realised that Valkyries and Vultures in the Rulebook are Armageddon Pattern. Until know i thought they wheren't available on Armageddon...now i have to include theminmy PDF armylist....




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Net EA Steel Legion
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 12:18 am 
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Well, IIRC according to the background the Steel Legion don't actually use Ogryns or Ratlings, and their Sentinels are mostly-armed with Lascannons.



Personally I'd go for making a fully divergant list, and rename the list to something else, like the 'Brass Dragoons Mechanised Imperial Guard Regiment' or whatever.

That means that you don't have to compromise when updating the list, and it doesn't make the Net:EA list an 'OR' choice for tournaments, as the core rulebook list will remain tourney-legal.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Net EA Steel Legion
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 12:25 am 
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I can't find your pdf anywhere bl, though i have seen you mention it a lot. Does it do anything odd or is it just a rationalised list of units?

Oh, another point, rename the companies as platoons as they really are very small, or simply not bother (as it would be slightly confusing and make it a bit trickier to pick stuff, and as I noted before with a fire support and infantry platoon upgrade you have a full paper strength British WWII infantry company!).

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Net EA Steel Legion
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 1:01 am 
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Developement Thread can be found here:
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/cgi-bin....;t=9471

The current list (V1.7) can be downloaded in the last link.

It is a bit streamlined with the Rulebook army list to be not that different for the armylist competition (because of this it has the rulebook Commissars rule for example).

Stripped down (= no fancy colours or fluff text)and actualisized version V1.8 downloadable here.

Changes:
- My version of Commissar Special Rule
- removed Fire arcs of secondary weapons from Leviathan and Stormsword.
- Stormtroopers now have Valkyries instead of Chimeras.
- Vultures added
- altered units for Hive Militia Company
- added Imperial Guard Conscript unit

(Editors note, could discussion unless relevant to a Net EA steel legion, take place in the development thread.)




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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Net EA Steel Legion
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 11:17 am 
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Further then should the list include stuff like the CI/leviathan (and if so why - not exactly a mech formation support).

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Net EA Steel Legion
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 11:26 am 
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The Leviathan is in because:
I really like it.
It was planned to be added to the rulebook army list anyway.
It justified it in the fluff entry that a couple of Leviathans are brought to Armageddon with the first settlers (yes i made this up).
In one of the White Dwarfs during the Argameddon3 campaign there is a piece of fluff which mentions Leviathans.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Net EA Steel Legion
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 11:46 am 
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I was mentioning in relation to the net ea steel legion list, which may be a modified core one or something different like yours BL :)

And incidentally that Leviathan model is awful. CI yes, Leviathan model no way.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Net EA Steel Legion
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 11:50 am 
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Ah ok :D
Then "It was planned to be added to the rulebook army list anyway." is still valid ;)
And with the rulebook armylist you can build a non-mechanised army without problems.

Iirc the concepts of the new model and the rules where a mix of the Capitol Imperialis and the Leviathan :) But i guess the name Leviathan was planned to be used because it is named in several White Dwarfs and Codices.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Net EA Steel Legion
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 12:17 pm 
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I like the idea of minimalist changes to the Steel Legion list.  Regardless of fluff, Jervis wrote the list as it is seen in Epic Armageddon, Ogryns and all, and IMO it makes little sense to change it now.

Modifications to things like the deathstrike missile, tweaking a range here or there, bumping a price up or down - these are the changes we should be making to the Steel Legion.  Other things like adding units should be kept for other lists.

Keep in mind tournament lists are just that - for tournaments.  Anyone who wants to draw a CI from a [new list name] Guard List or Russ variants from the Minervan list or Lightning Fighters from the [new list name] Guard list can always do that in a friendly game or scenario.  I know that there has been an idea knocking around of a generic Imperial Guard list, but I don't want to see the Steel Legion become it.  Personally I like all the variant lists and wouldn't mind another IG one, even if it was just slightly different.  It certainly would make it easier to balance the point costs.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Net EA Steel Legion
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 12:54 pm 
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Mosc, that the tourny steel legion changes. This is the more extensive Net EA steel legion (brass legion, london legion whatever). The minimal change one is already in. Question is now how extensive is the net ea one. Its a seperate list. It gets the fixes and style changes the other one didn't. Should it also be adding and dropping units? If so which ones?

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Steve54
 Post subject: Net EA Steel Legion
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 1:37 pm 
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Personally I'd like this review to see the IG Steel Legion list (ie the book list) comprehensively fixed - the changes which were not included in the minimal tourney changes.

This would leave a fully balanced, fully available list based on the original IG list. Basically the book list perfected.

Then new units, structures etc can be introduced in the myriad other IG lists under development- Chromas Cadians, the Minervans, tank list etc.

Then you are left with a perfected basic list- IG Steel Legion and 5-6 balanced IG variants which gain/lose units and provide a different flavour.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Net EA Steel Legion
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 2:17 pm 
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Well all the changes were

Unit and/or cost
Deathstrikes
Baneblades
Marauders
Vultures
Roughriders
Commissars
Snipers
Bombards

Style
Sentinel pattern name
Infantry heavy weapon to missile launcher

Then you have extra changes
You can replaceshadowswords with the FW model to match the baneblades.
Add/replace Arm. Sentinels
Add the CI/Levianthan (removed in testing due to model constraints)

Then you have more style changes
Removing Ogryns to fit fluff
Adding 3+ hive militia (though they would really just become odd garrisons and I don't think have a place in a mech list, infantry yes, mech no).

At what point do you stop? Be nice if NetEA supremo Neal dropped by and gave his thoughts :)

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Net EA Steel Legion
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 2:40 pm 
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(The_Real_Chris @ May 31 2008,07:54)
QUOTE
Mosc, that the tourny steel legion changes. This is the more extensive Net EA steel legion (brass legion, london legion whatever). The minimal change one is already in. Question is now how extensive is the net ea one. Its a seperate list. It gets the fixes and style changes the other one didn't. Should it also be adding and dropping units? If so which ones?

Well, I officially have no idea what kind of feedback you are looking for.  If I read your post correctly you are looking to make a NetEA Steel Legion list which is different from the Tournament Steel Legion list?   :confuse:  :O

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Net EA Steel Legion
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 3:00 pm 
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The touny list has 3 changes. To the bomber, the deathstrike and the baneblade.

It doesn't change names, roughrider attacks, hellstrike ranges etc etc. Just the stuff that was a) very underpowered and b) very abused (overwatching deathstrikes).

The Net EA list does have all those other more minor changes. So the question is how far should these changes go?

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