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Tank Rider special rule
The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Tank Rider special rule
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 1:22 pm 
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So I am fiddling with the mechanised spearhead list and I feel they need a special rule (because they haven't even got the commissar special rule). So instead they get the following and I was wondering on the wording. It comes in two parts, one for the datafax and one for the army list.

Special Rule ? Tank Rider

Infantry with Tank Rider may be transported on the hull of any armoured vehicle in addition to any troops carried inside. Whenever the vehicle must take a saving throw the infantry must also take a saving throw or be destroyed. If the armoured vehicle is removed for any other reason (e.g. a failed dangerous terrain test) the infantry are placed on the last spot occupied by the vehicle.


Special Rule ? Transport

Mechanised Spearheads cannot be partly mechanised. If any infantry cannot be transported or ride on armoured vehicles integral to their formation they cannot be deployed (they cannot keep up!).

Note Tank Riders may only ride on vehicles in the same formation in the tournament scenario.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Tank Rider special rule
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 1:59 pm 
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I think there should be something about the formation being subject to AP fire, but I haven't figured it out quite yet.  I'll try to post something later if nobody else can come up with it.

Personally I like it.  A single special rule is easily digested and helps distinguish the list.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Tank Rider special rule
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 2:24 pm 
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And why don't they have Commissars? ?What Imperial commander would have his men go up against the foul enemies of the Imperium without the moral support of the Commissariat?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Tank Rider special rule
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 2:26 pm 
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And why don't they have Commissars? What Imperial commander would have his men go up against the foul enemies of the Imperium without the moral support of the Commissariat?


Good point.

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J0k3r
 Post subject: Tank Rider special rule
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 2:29 pm 
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This is a rule I have also been fiddling around with for a while for a Valhallan list- I can think of nothing that would better represent a mechanised Valhallan army than squads riding into battle on their t34s- *cough*i mean leman russes.

Thoughts
- how many troops per vehicle?  1 per DP would seem sensible (ie a fire team on each battle tank).  
- You may also want to stipulate only land vehicles (or does armoured vehicle cover that? thinking valkyrie here).
- How are you going to introduce this?  A new formation of, say 6 tanks plus 6 inf or use upgrades to give infantry to tank formations and vice versa? In the latter case I imagine teh inf coy size will need to some down so you can buy enough tank ugrades.

Alternatively, have you considered making them an exception to the usual transport rules, instead you declare the formations intermingled and, ala the commander rule, make a combined activation.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Tank Rider special rule
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 3:03 pm 
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This is for my own supplement (with the Salamander mech guys), no way to replace anything anyone else has done! Sorry for giving that impression!

More after Iron man! - Edit, it wasn't as good as the trailer.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Tank Rider special rule
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 3:21 pm 
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(The_Real_Chris @ May 07 2008,15:03)
QUOTE
This is for my own supplement

So, why no Commissars?

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Tank Rider special rule
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:26 am 
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Theres no Commissar special rule as opposed to no commissars! :)

Following on from what was said in several different thread about free stuff I'm experimenting with a different way of including Commissars, this time as upgrades. The list doesn't have roughriders and stuff that needs commissars outside the companies. So they will be there as a 50 point upgrade (too much? The standard mech company is 375 in this list to compensate somewhat), or maybe you choose either a Salamander Command or a commissar to add for 50 points. Though of course still thinking it over as to what to do exactly.

As a side note what do people think the value of stormtroopers, valkries and a commissar would be?

Tank riders
I was going to just ignore problems with AP (they should be able to be shot at) and AT (why is it affecting infantry?). But it could be an easy to say as they are still on the board or somesuch they can still be shot at, only problem is do they count as being in cover for touching a vehicle :). They gain the indirect vulnerability to AT (through the tank being hit) as a weakness of riding a tank and the typical infantry defese of spreading out can't be done.


(J0k3r @ May 07 2008,14:29)
QUOTE
This is a rule I have also been fiddling around with for a while for a Valhallan list.


Yes its come up before for Valhallens :)


- how many troops per vehicle? ?1 per DP would seem sensible (ie a fire team on each battle tank). ?


I was going to just say one, but I guess this way more can hang onto a baneblade? Or stick to AV's for simplicity and assume no-one defiles the sacred warengines that way?

- You may also want to stipulate only land vehicles (or does armoured vehicle cover that? Thinking valkyrie here).

Damn I thought they were LV's!

Option one - Ignore it. Stormtroopers don't have tank rider in the army list so it doesn't come up.

Option two - Add something saying no skimmers so it clarifies for non tourney games.


- How are you going to introduce this? ?A new formation of, say 6 tanks plus 6 inf or use upgrades to give infantry to tank formations and vice versa? In the latter case I imagine teh inf coy size will need to some down so you can buy enough tank ugrades.


Just use the infantry upgrade. 6 stands and away you go. I see it as more useful for mech troops as now they are less vulnerable to losing transports.


Alternatively, have you considered making them an exception to the usual transport rules, instead you declare the formations intermingled and, ala the commander rule, make a combined activation.

I was going to leave all that for scenarios by only having them ride in their formation for the GT list (scenario players can work it out themselves).

As it won't be part of the core rule a valhallen list could have a different GT transport rule.
The other oddity is close combat, they would need a note about sliding off into cc and not being pinned 'inside'?

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Tank Rider special rule
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 7:08 am 
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Yes, we added this type of "Panzer Rider", aways back. And basically use the standard mounting and dismounting rules like with Rhinos, etc. ... Not only does it make sense from a Real World prespective, I've  done it(on M-60s not Russes !).   We also use towing rules for non-mech FA & AAA. In the RW, everything with wheels or tracks has a tow hook on the back ...

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Tank Rider special rule
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:52 am 
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TRC, I didn't follow how you were going to resolve the AP targets riding on the tops of the tanks.  Can you clarify?

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J0k3r
 Post subject: Tank Rider special rule
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:33 am 
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The simplest thing would be to ignore it.  After all open topped transports in the Ork list still cant be hit by inf weapons.  Its bad enough that tank riders need to take a save any time teh tank is hit with an AT weapon.  

Actually I was wondering- do the tanks count as cover for teh riders? Otherwise it will be very easy to strip troops from them as base IG don't have a save IIRC




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Soren
 Post subject: Tank Rider special rule
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:10 pm 
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The other question is: Do we need this rule?

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Tank Rider special rule
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:17 pm 
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No special rule is really needed to play the game. But they underline/emphase the style how a particular army is played.

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Soren
 Post subject: Tank Rider special rule
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:30 pm 
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Orks also only clamp on their gunwagons...no rule needed, simply 1 transport capacity. No additional hits, special features, exeption from rules or similar.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Tank Rider special rule
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:35 pm 
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Speaking historically, was 'tank riding' ever used to increase battlefield mobility in a direct-engagement situation, or was it only used behind the lines in less dangerous situations?

That doesn't nessesarily matter, because 40k is 'hyper-reality', where the implausible becomes commonplace, but I thought it was worth asking.

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