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Griffons

Evil and Chaos

Post subject: Griffons

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:18 pm

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Griffons... the worst choice in the IG armoury.

I've been trying to get griffons to work in my army... is it me, or are they simply a waste of 100pts that would be better-spent elsewhere?

I've fielded them in half a dozen games, and I've yet to see them make their points back; Their range is terrible, they never use their indirect fire ability as that means the company they're attached to will be wasting its firepower / manuever for the turn, and their armour save is terrible.

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Ilushia

Post subject: Griffons

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:25 pm

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The only place I see they look like they -might- be usable is maybe in an IG MechInf company. Since they're the same speed as a Chimera they can keep up with the rest of the company and offer you a 3 BP broadside into enemies. I suppose you could also do them in a Basilisk company but don't think that'd actually work very well.

In general I'd tend to agree with you. They don't seem to have any particularly good role in the list specifically. Everything they can do something else can do better, pretty much. The only thing they offer you is a 30cm movement 3 BP attack which can be used to soften something up. Since you can't take more then one group of them at a time you're kinda limited in function here.

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: Griffons

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:10 am

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which can be used to soften something up.

You can't really use them as a softening up unit, as they're attached to a company, which really needs to be doing something more than minor irritation.

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Markconz

Post subject: Griffons

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:04 am

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Hmm I don't have any griffons anymore as I sold my 6 to a friend. I thought they might have a role in a mech infantry company though... 60cm 3BP for 100 points, doesn't seem too awful to me, considering they will probably be 15cm behind the front of the formation (which will be shooting 45cm). I guess though that the point of a mech company is that it should be moving...

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: Griffons

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:25 am

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I guess though that the point of a mech company is that it should be moving...

Indeed.

They're just not useful.

I feel I should be spending those 100pts on a sentinel squadron, or some snipers in a chimera.

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The_Real_Chris

Post subject: Griffons

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:06 am

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I use them attached to Leman Russ formations and to mech formations. Have also played them with lots of infantry companies (and Hydra) which was something of a surprise for my opponent (6 of them was quite surprising for him).

The shorter range is less of a problem as you would think if you are going forward lots.

I find them fine. We tried them at 75 but then the the maxing out as done above starts to show more.

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BlackLegion

Post subject: Griffons

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:13 am

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Hmm, if the Company with Griffons sustains the Griffons would automatically shoot indirect too?

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BlackLegion

Post subject: Griffons

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:40 am

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In non-Mechanised Companies they are useful too. They boost the range of the Company from 45cm to 60cm on Sustain. Ideal for camping somewhere.

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Markconz

Post subject: Griffons

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:43 am

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(Hena @ Dec. 04 2007,06:37)

QUOTE

Since the Heavy Bolters on Chimeras need that 30cm range, their use gets easier.

Don't forget the multilasers which are also 30cm

Quite a useful amount of fire power on Chimeras which means you really want them at 30cm.

Still trying to get everything into 30cm range can be bit of a challenge.

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asaura

Post subject: Griffons

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:50 am

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(BlackLegion @ Dec. 04 2007,07:40)

QUOTE

In non-Mechanised Companies they are useful too. They boost the range of the Company from 45cm to 60cm on Sustain. Ideal for camping somewhere.

Yes, but at the cost of losing Garrison. What's ideal for camping somewhere is Fire Support. Then you can Sustain Fire from turn 1. With Griffons, you spend turn 1 getting into position.

This is probably the only time ever that I find myself thinking along the same lines as E&C, but Griffons do suck. With a Mechanized Company, Ogres with Chimeras cost the same and give you more practical firepower, more units and better saves. Mechanized Companies never get to do Sustained Fire, in my experience. Ogres+Chimeras are the same on Double and Advance, better on Overwatch and Engage.

The problem might be the Chimera. It has too much cheap firepower in comparison with anything else. I know we can't change the Chimera.

Having Griffons as independent batteries might work. Limit to 3, have them cost 150 and go. Even then, a Hydra battery is likely to win every time.

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: Griffons

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:58 am

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(BlackLegion @ Dec. 04 2007,07:40)

QUOTE

In non-Mechanised Companies they are useful too. They boost the range of the Company from 45cm to 60cm on Sustain. Ideal for camping somewhere.

3BP is not useful when you're then wasting the firepower of an entire company.

You might as well Advance to bring the entire formation into range.

Plus, you've put weak-armoured vehicles in an all-infantry formation... hello blast markers!

As Asurau says above, you also lose the ability to Garrison, so it's unlikely you'll ever get a target that the enemy actually cares about.

Griffons are rubbish.

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Tiny-Tim

Post subject: Griffons

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:40 pm

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I like to use Griffons in my Tournament Guard army and they haven't done too badly in the past. I put my Griffons in with a Mech Comp to make it my BTS.

The great thing about Griffons is that they can force your opponent to spread out a little if he is worried about your barrage thus reducing the number of stands that you are facing when you finally engage. Plus they make a nice chimera shield for the first few AT shots against the formation.

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nealhunt

Post subject: Griffons

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:41 pm

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I would agree with most of the posts on here that the only real use seems to be mech inf. Other uses are possible but have drawbacks.

_Maybe_ you could attach them to Basilisks if you were planning a defensive style of fight where you expected the enemy to close with your artillery. They would provide extra firepower a bit over half way across the board and function as meat shields for the Basilisks. You'd definitely have to plan for it, though.

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Reddeth

Post subject: Griffons

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:28 am

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Agree with the general feeling re the Griffon. I initally bought 6 of the things before I realised their in game limitations. They are too short ranged to be used as dedicated artillery and struggle to perform when trying to keep up with mech infantry.

Thankfully they are very useful for conversions. I've since converted 3 into Basiliks, 2 into Deathstrikes and the other one into a command chimera for my SC...

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