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Mechanised Spearhead

The_Real_Chris

Post subject: Mechanised Spearhead

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:13 am

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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
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Location: London

This is a list from a mate, looking for feedback. The core idea is no units (other than infantry) with a speed of less than 25cm. This would be the spearhead hitting a flank or powering through the front lines. The infantry companies are included to represent formations from other regiments (bit of extra colour!) that have achieved the initial break through!

I have formatted it, added a few/changed a few units and played with the point?s values.

Personally I am unsure about the outriders and Chimera IFV?s, simply because of having to find the models. Otherwise I like the ideas. The outriders though are possibly surplus to requirements with the Salamanders in the list.

The strategy rating has increased to a stratospheric 3 to represent the fast moving nature of this formation.
Alternative air units are used, trying to capture the ?close air support? needed as opposed to the Marauder and its bomb payload.

All in all the intended experience is something closer to speed freeks than the steel legion. Lighter armour, no super weapons, higher speed.

Oh and tell me about any typos before I send it back to 'im

Edit, work in progress version at end of thread, removing this one.

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Soren

Post subject: Mechanised Spearhead

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:44 am

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Location: Austria

Strategy rating is not only the movement speed but also the c3 rating and the freedom sub-commanders have in their "interpretation" of orders. I generally dislike lists, which screw on the SR. IG stays IG, no matter what eqipment they have. I can do a steel legion List wich nothing less than 30cm movement, this also recieves no SR3.

my 0,002 cent

Soren

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rpr

Post subject: Mechanised Spearhead

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:48 am

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Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:32 pm
Posts: 516

(The_Real_Chris @ Nov. 07 2007,11:13)

QUOTE

The strategy rating has increased to a stratospheric 3 to represent the fast moving nature of this formation.

Maybe Speed Freaks could have SR of 4 then? :]

(I personally do not like the tweak of SR for many variant armies.. SR in general has such a big effect in the battle that there should be IMNSHO much bigger core changes than a few less/more units to change SR.. I'm mainly referring to Eldar/Chaos variants with different SR than "base army" which I disapprove)

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The_Real_Chris

Post subject: Mechanised Spearhead

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:57 pm

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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
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Location: London

Any other comments?

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Chroma

Post subject: Mechanised Spearhead

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:22 pm

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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
Posts: 9684
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada

Interesting list!

Do Armoured Fist Infantry units normally get a missile launcher per 5-man squad? I'd think this should map with the Steel Legion autocannon, with one per two units.

Should the Outriders be mounted? What's the reason for not using "normal" Rough Riders here? To me, it seems like an unnecessary new unit.

The Regimental HQ already has a Commissar assigned to it, does this count as one of the "One per 500" Commissars or is it an extra? I'd recommend dropping the Commissar from the HQ and following the normal Commissar assignment rule.

I agree that the list probably shouldn't have SR3, but I disagree with the idea that changing the Strategy Rating of armies should be avoided: I feel it can make for a very interesting change, but needs to be examined case by case.

More to come when I get a better chance to review the list.

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The_Real_Chris

Post subject: Mechanised Spearhead

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:51 am

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Yes to the first two, they are mistakes by me!

Rough riders were a) too slow and b) not in his collection (he swapped them for bikes with me). Plus he is a Gaunts ghosts fan and liked the stroy with the outriders. So the bikes. Stats i think are taken from the collectors section and are also intended to replace the rough riders/sentinels cheap scout activation.

Likewise the IFV's - he has a bunch of varient chimera and wants to use them! PLus it is intended to give more punch to the list that otherwise lacks stuff like russ and shadowswords.

The regimental commander/commissar is my idea, not his. It is in addition and is a combination of an idea to have 1 + 1 for each full 500 points. By sticking one with the regimental HQ you remove a big chunk of text from the commissar special rule and ensure the most number of commissars come when you bring along the high command!

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The_Real_Chris

Post subject: Mechanised Spearhead

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:39 pm

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Lightning Attack crafts cost should probably be 200 at least. It has AA4+ weapon (with suggested mods hitting on 3+ then) and weapon ranges are longer than on Thunderbolt. Sure it shoots a bit less against mixed and AP targets, but still. Have you checked the Elysian list on stats and costs as it has those aircrafts as well?

I've been out of things for a while, i essentially quickly formatted what he sent and used the 1.6 armour thing as a reference.
175 or 200? First question is what's better - the strike or attack load out. Swapping the 45cm hydra autocannon for 3 5+ AT missiles? I reckon the missiles are better. But I don't reckon the strike is 225. Ideally the damn things would be sold in packets of three

The attack is 50% better for AA and only slightly worse for ground attack.

Re lightnings. Looking at the E list they have the stats I sorta prefer, cept I don't know if those lascannon stats work. But since I have given them a different name...

The strike variant is also sorta stronger (with 2 x 4+ as opposed to 3 x 5+ and of course longer range).

Guess it hinges round can you accept the wingtip lascannon delivering 30cm AT4+/AA5+.

They are also costed at three to a packet.

Saying all this if they could be worth the same points it would all those with odd lightnings in there collection and allow mixed pairs.

Chimera IFVs. These are wierd. AA weapon, cost for replacing is 25 per IVF. Initial reaction would that these are too good. I think that this variability of weapons on AV transports is ... not good.

Its based apparently on European IFV formations. Infantry with a fairly standard load out plus the vehicles covering a variety of roles. Its actually 75 for two considering you replace a chimera. Leaving the other two variants aside 2 shots of 30cm AA6+ (plus AP4+ like the twin heavy bolter turret) doesn't seem that hot. Hydra still a better option if you need AA, or even longer ranged AP and decent AT.

6 Conquerors on those stats are too cheap for 325. Again the MW change rears it ugly head ...

Conquerers? Have I mixed up the stats? They have 45cm AP5+/AT5+ guns not MW?

The points are based on the 1.6 armour list, 'cept I thought 300 points for 6 was a bit cheap so upped it.

Any chance to mark which units are changed from those that aren't?

Not easily as I've been out of things for a while and compared to what stats where?

I wouldn't be surprised if there were several different sets by now!

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Chroma

Post subject: Mechanised Spearhead

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 5:43 pm

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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
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Location: Montréal, QC, Canada

Hey Chris!

I see you posted an update to the list. Could I recommend adding a "version number" as the list progresses, just so we can keep track?

As well, I don't think you really need to include the stats for unchanged units in the army, it would probably save you a whole page of text!

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J0k3r

Post subject: Mechanised Spearhead

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 1:02 pm

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Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 11:18 pm
Posts: 876
Location: Edinburgh, UK

I agree

Ahem, anyway. I like this list and had an idea for it- how about making a scout platoon using buggies/jeeps. Either make them an attack variant with heavy stubbers or give them transport (1) to represent a light scout vehicle. Im thinking here that there are some great DRM and EW vehicles that would fit the bill perfectly in this respect

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The_Real_Chris

Post subject: Mechanised Spearhead

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 1:50 pm

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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
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Is that not the salamander? Or are you thinking like the siege light tank? Here we also have outriders, they could be in anything from jeeps to bikes??

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J0k3r

Post subject: Mechanised Spearhead

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 2:23 pm

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Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 11:18 pm
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Location: Edinburgh, UK

The outriders fit the bill of bikes pretty well, im thinking of something more substantial. Actually proxies using salamander stats would make the most sense- those stats are exactly what i would have made them, plus with the tank raider rule it works pretty well.

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: Mechanised Spearhead

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 3:05 pm

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Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire

I reckon the Leman Russ Tank Destroyers could possibly be a bit cheap.

In the Minervan list, it's +50pts to upgrade a Leman Russ to a Tank Destroyer, whilst in this list it's only 25pts, and these Tank Destroyer stats are better too (Faster).

Something like this:

Mech Inf Company - 400
2 Russ upgrades - 125
2 Destroyer Upgrades - 50

Grants you a Mech Inf Company, with two (25cm move) Tank Destroyers, for 25pts less than the cost of a Steel Legion Mech Inf Company with 3x Leman Russ.

In a similar vein, you've upped the speed of the Thunderer, changed the gun to MW status, and made it a +25pt upgrade. I know that it ignores cover, but I can't see it competing on an equal footing with the Tank Destroyer even with those improved stats.

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The_Real_Chris

Post subject: Mechanised Spearhead

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:29 pm

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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London

Since everyone is keen to comment this version is a bit old, here is my in the middle of editing document.

Well here it would be if it wasn't to big. Try and get the new version up in a bit. And its one tank destroyer now plus a few other rejiged options.

Stuff like the demolisher cannon being MW was to fit with the old proposals. Personally I'm glad its gone!

Here is a work in progress version.

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