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Batrep: Imperial Guard vs Tyranids, 3k
Markconz
 Post subject: Batrep: Imperial Guard vs Tyranids, 3k
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:17 am 
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(Hena @ Oct. 07 2007,06:46)
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1. Why does the Hive Tyrant have 4+RA and Invulnerable? That is on border of ridiculous. 3+ and IS was hugely better idea. Killing them with this set of rules is very, very hard.

You're in a minority on this one I think. It is absolutely necessary in my experience that they have bit of a boost. Not to mention being more than justified by background and 40k.

2. Hierodules spawning is ... impossible almost now. This is wrong. But at least the cost needs to come down on the WEs if the intention is not to allow spawning of them (which is wrong in my humble opinion).


I don't think many people would be upset if it is wasn't  possible (or was very difficult) to spawn these... apart from a few tyranid players maybe. I'm neutral about it - meh.

3. Demolisher is practically now automatic if one takes additional Russes. Only situations where I might consider the basic leman russ is SH company consisting only of Shadowswords (as that 75cm range helps with the suppression). And in regular Russ company as the stats are same (but note that this is a situation where I would ponder very hard on which to take). In any other situation the Demolisher is automatically better choice. In this the MW change is just bad.

So you would take normal Russ sometimes and Demolishers others times. Given your initial resistance to the concept, it sounds like they may not be too out of balance then.

4. Baneblade. Intersting. It can generate much punch but mainly due to doubling it has problems hitting. The 3+ change to main cannon is very welcome as it helps with this. As is addition of Heavy Bolters. In this the Demolisher change isn't that huge (as one tends to need to double and thus reduce the to-hit value). But I don't think it's requires either to make the BB work.

Interetsing, though Bugs have always been one of the best matchups for baneblades in my experience. It's more vs other armies that the concern was coming from. Same deal applies to Demolishers to an extent - where the lack of range can leave them floundering.


5. Vulture. 45cm range reduction is quite dramatic. It certainly hampered the use of the vehicle a lot. In 2nd turn I couldn't double to enemy side as the range would not have been sufficient to fire over a hill in eastern side. With 60cm I could have done that. So in light of this 60cm seems better.

Once again I think the matchup is not great for evaluating these, though I do agree with you that 60cm is more appropriate than 45cm.


Anyway thanks for the report and feedback!

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Markconz
 Post subject: Batrep: Imperial Guard vs Tyranids, 3k
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:15 am 
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(Hena @ Oct. 07 2007,08:35)
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As for 40k. It's rules with regards to high toughness with multiple wounds are broken. It's rather stupid that you can wreck a Land Raider with one shot from las cannon, but Carnifex will only laugh at it.

This is an old argument of yours Hena, I grow tired of it.

You are very set in the way you think things should be about imaginary space bugs... it's not our job to redesign the background and setting, just to represent the feel of the GW IP. In that respect a Landraider breaks more easily than a tyrant which is supposed to be harder to put down.  

If you want to reinvent the background then by all means do that - but make it a fan list (which I may even use!) just stop insisting that the core lists background should be altered simply due to your very subjective opinion that it is wrong in some way. This sort of argument makes it very hard for me to take your general commentary seriously.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Batrep: Imperial Guard vs Tyranids, 3k
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:26 pm 
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No one is insisting on forcing 40k rules to epic Hena and nor is anyone is saying carnifexes should be same as tyrants except you - stop being paranoid.

It's your claims like this that are frustrating:
"It's rather stupid that you can wreck a Land Raider with one shot from las cannon, but Carnifex will only laugh at it.".

Why is it stupid? Just because you think so? Based on what?  There's plenty of background material about the bigger and nastier bug creatures being able to carry on even after multiple damage (that would wreck a flimsy tank). Like the Star Ship Troopers quote "you can shoot a limb off and and it's still 86 percent combat effective" (damn I love that movie). Plus in 40k they sometimes have regeneration too. Only way to be sure it's dead is to pump enough shots into it to turn it into gravy. That's part of the cool defining character of tyranids - and you call it stupid!

We went with cheap hordelike carnifexes in Epic - equivalent to the cheap screamer killers in 40k that have no extra armour or guns.  They are fine as is in terms of background and balance IMO.

Tyrants were matched down to this for no good reason, and as a result were far too easily sniped (in my experience anyway), and just not worthwhile compared to other Synapse choices (unless perhaps bought in Nexus). Thus back to 4+RA as they should have stayed. This is just opinion of course like you say. My major gripe was just with you calling tyranid character stupid.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Batrep: Imperial Guard vs Tyranids, 3k
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:57 pm 
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(Hena @ Oct. 07 2007,13:43)
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The claim isn't frustrating, but pointing out the serious flaw in 40k. Vehicles are inheriently weaker than model with high toughness and multiple wounds.

Actually if see what targets fall into those categories, do the math and follow the damage outcomes through to completion you will realise it doesn't really work out as terribly as you imply at all. Some MC's have an advantage but that is part of their character.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Batrep: Imperial Guard vs Tyranids, 3k
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:57 pm 
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Thanks for the great report Hena!

(Hena @ Oct. 07 2007,07:45)
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End Phase

The battle ends 3 - 0 for Imperial Guard with "Blitzkrieg", "Take and Hold" and "Defend the Flag".
Nice to see a game where the Tyranid opponent *didn't* get BTS!  *laugh*

More comments to come.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Batrep: Imperial Guard vs Tyranids, 3k
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:58 pm 
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Well that was field test for the IG. I had considered trying out the Minervans but didn't as the super heavy costs are still off


I really must post that latest version... :D

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