Tactical Command
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Vultures?
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=10474		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  Markconz [ Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:08 am ]
Post subject:  Vultures?
Despite the change to the Skimmer rules which restrict line of sight, concern has still been expressed at the power of vultures (more so when combined with the garrisoning on overwatch rule).

People have proposed range reductions (eg 90) and/or reductions in AT (eg -1),. The French rule changes purportedly have them at 90cm and AT3.

So what is everyones feelings on this matter at the present time?
Author:  Charad [ Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:15 am ]
Post subject:  Vultures?
They really need a bit downgrading. I personally love vultures, but often I left them home due to their incredible power (same issues with deathstrikes). They can make destruction many times their own cost in one turn, that  is too much.
Author:  Markconz [ Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:19 am ]
Post subject:  Vultures?

(Hena @ Sep. 06 2007,03:41)
QUOTE
I would do a larger range change. 60cm (or 45cm) or something like that.

Wow - harsh.  And people call you conservative Hena!   :)
Author:  rpr [ Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:41 am ]
Post subject:  Vultures?
I am also in favor of greater range reduction, like 75cm or 60cm or maybe even more as Hena suggested. I'm also in favor of AT3.
Author:  Ginger [ Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:06 am ]
Post subject:  Vultures?
I'm with the rest - definitely reduce the range to 60cm (in line with Tau etc), possibly further. Less sure on the AT3, but voted for it. If range is reduced to 60 / 45, then the need to double will have the desired effect of reducing power.
Author:  Soren [ Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Vultures?
Definitely no reduction. Vultures are a one shot wonder and I am not willing to pay 300 pts for a AT3 90cm one shot weapon. sorry, but that is ridiculous.   :angry:

In most of my games they never bring back their points because of primary shooting target. 300pts for the nothing.

And to be honest, I have never seen them doing destruction "many times of their point cost". I am curious on which target you shoot to reach this.
Author:  BlackLegion [ Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Vultures?
Range reduction, AT reduction AND points reduction :) Because as Soren said they don't destory so much.
Author:  Irondeath [ Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:34 am ]
Post subject:  Vultures?
I?m in the larger range reduction camp, down to 75cm or even 60cm.

Soren, play Elias? IG a couple of times and you will see the light. Vultures need no tactics or maneuver at all to be effective with the current stats.

If the range reduction leaves them overpriced, the cost can be adjustedm but 120cm AT2+ Skimmer is not balanced by One-Shot.

The Vultures basically kill an AV formation when they fire and then stay around to shoot stuff, place BM and claim objectives, their secondary armament isn?t that useless.
Author:  Chroma [ Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Vultures?

(Soren @ Sep. 06 2007,10:07)
QUOTE
Definitely no reduction. Vultures are a one shot wonder and I am not willing to pay 300 pts for a AT3 90cm one shot weapon. sorry, but that is ridiculous.

Well, they've also got a twin-autocannon and heavy bolter to back themselves up with...

One formation of them can often be taken out... but if you've got two or three, they start leaving big dents.

For 300 points, Marines get four, far inferior, Predators... which Vultures will most likely easily take out...

Even with a 90cm range, with a 35cm move and/or garrisoning, they're still able to hit practically anywhere on a standard 4x6 battlefield.
Author:  Tiny-Tim [ Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Vultures?
With the changes to the skimmer rules and using a decent amount of terraine on the table have really reduced the effectiveness of this unit and from my battles with them they are now a known commodity to tournament players and thus get targetted early on.

You only make a mistake against Vultures once.
Author:  Dave [ Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Vultures?
I find the differences between this poll and the last amusing.

http://www.tacticalwargames.net/cgi-bin....;t=9755

I vote AT3+ with possible range reduction.
Author:  Markconz [ Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Vultures?

(Dave @ Sep. 06 2007,12:57)
QUOTE
I find the differences between this poll and the last amusing.

Hey I didn't even see that poll somehow!  :O  I just stuck in an 'other' vote to take a look at the results. I guess I probably abstained first time around.

Of course the Vulture is a comparatively new unit to Epic, so it will have taken longer for them to get into more widespread circulation and use than other units, and consequently for people to form opinions.
Author:  Ginger [ Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Vultures?

(Markconz @ Sep. 06 2007,14:07)
QUOTE

(Dave @ Sep. 06 2007,12:57)
QUOTE
I find the differences between this poll and the last amusing.

Hey I didn't even see that poll somehow! ?:O ?I just stuck in an 'other' vote to take a look at the results. I guess I probably abstained first time around.

Seems you were not alone - there seem to be a significant number of different name in the two polls - which might just account for the disparity in the results
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