Yes, the Baneblades were useful because of their hull/chassis - nothing they did in this game could not have been done better or equally by a Shadowsword.

Upgunning the man cannon on the tank...probably wouldn't have helped a huge amount, the only gun I regularly fired is the Bane cannon and you're then competing 1xAP3/AT3 (or 2 shots if changed) vs 1xMW2 (TK)...I'd rather have the almost guaranteed kill (2BM) than the 2 potential kills (1-3BM).

I managed to fire the full payload of a single baneblade once, that happened only because Rug forgot that there was one hidden behind a piece of terrain so it 'ambushed' his sentinels and blew two of them up.

My initial plan in using the singletons was to have them double forward (+15cm deployment) then have a mech inf company move to sit on top/alongside the baneblade, intermingling to ensure we had 2xCommissar, some additional LoS blocking and the 3xFF4+, using the BBlade as an engagement support tank basically.

Problem being that the mech inf are better using their speed to actually threaten to do stuff and things. Maybe better if used with some cheap footsloggers (inf co+hydra). You'd still need to be careful not to block the LoFire of your own infantry with the war engine though.

So, conclusions from the game. The BBlade is not bad. It just doesn't provide anything you're not already getting from something else and that something else is usually something you want to take anyway. We need to give it a role that it can do better than other things and it has to be a role that you actually want it to fill (being amazing at gunning down unarmoured infantry/LVs out of cover is...not a desireable role).

Exactly, if it gets speed 20cm, how do you justify that it is faster than: Macharius, Stormhammer, Stormsword, Malcador, Shadowsword, etc... when it has the same speed, weight and engine as the other superheavies.

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I think there are too many vehicles with a 15cm move in this game. Being as slow as infantry should be a deliberate gameplay decision but it hasn't been used that way.

It obviously makes sense for super-super-heavies like Ordinatuses and the Leviathan. In terms of fluff you could also justify it for overburdened versions of the Baneblade's chassis and infantry support tanks.

The latter might include the Malcador; I don't know much about it, but it looks like it could be in that category. The UK liked them, both during WWI and II (Matilda and Churchill, for example). In Epic, it'd be most appropriate for tanks that are can be bought as upgrades for foot infantry. The Macharius and Baneblade don't seem to be in that category.

In real life it was also fairly common to load a tank chassis with a large fixed weapon as artillery or as a tank hunter, and it would often result in a heavier and slower vehicle. If it isn't meant to spearhead an armored assault, it can be slow (the Elefant, for example, was slow compared to the Tiger). That applies to the Shadowsword and its cousins. Fluff isn't the most important thing, but rather the fact that they don't need speed to achiever their supposed role in-game. The Baneblade does, otherwise it'll be used as a pillbox. The Stormhammer is a tough call. It should be slower because it'd be heavier, but it seems to be meant as an offensive weapon and would struggle to be useful with a 15cm move.

Looking at the stormhammer stats...
3DC/4+RATRA/15cm/FF3+/4x30cm AP4+, 2x45cm AP3+/AT3+
I think that is a tank best left out of discussions about the baneblade... Wasn't it in the background what you did with smashed up baneblades? So lower performance is fine.

I would be happy with something that made the baneblade do what it is supposed to do. Currently it is something used when you don't have enough shadowsword models If it is supposed to grind along with the infantry fine, if it is supposed to lay all before it, fine. A core question is does it advance and who with, a second question is then is it for assaults or shooting and finally what should the weapons achieve. Currently it is a slow vehcile best suited to defence if given the opportunity with less firepower than a russ formation, but better survivablity and assault if it gets in.

Well in another thread the Nurgle Plague Tower got a boost to 20 cm with the only argument that it was to slow so why couldn't the Baneblade do the same...

The Imperium used to have good enough engine tech to move something as heavy as a Baneblade 20cm - the SM superheavies (Glaive, Fellblade, ect) can move 12" rather than 6", so should be 20cm move in Epic. A 40k Baneblade only goes 6" like the other IG superheavies it shares the same chassis and engine with but perhaps we could boost it, though I'd prefer 2BP main gun instead.

Malcadors, which others have mentioned, are very specifically mentioned to be slow in 40k due to underpowerered engines.

While I would love like to seen the BB used as a utility type tank, in gaming terms that may not be possible, and likely too controversial.



That behind me, I agree with Glynn, if anything is to be done I would prefer a slight long ranged firepower boost, particular to the main cannon. I am still interested in the 2BP option, but the 2 shot option may be the better compromise, plus there is already some Batreps from players supporting a firepower increase.

At the end of the day the BB has a nice weapons set, but they're clearly defensive in nature due to the speed of the BB. What you end up with is a WE that can simply be avoided. I've heard the argument that they can create zones of control, but if I'm going to do that, I'd just as well use 100pts towards a formation of sentinels and call it a day. For 200 points it needs to do something besides just being "defensive."

Perhaps speed is the answer, but a firepower increase to the main cannon is likely less controversial/dramatic. I like that the BB is defensive, but it needs to have the ability to affect things further away from the deployment zone. Nothing like a shadowsword of course, but definitely something more in comparison to its current stats.

I've seen people for and against the changes to the BB. In all seriousness, what are the chances of actually enacting change, and how should we go about doing this besides logging Batreps?

2 shots/bp does as has been pointed out encourage static sustaining. Do you think this tank shold be a pillbox or be on the move?

Having tried both, the BP option did provide suddenly make my opponent pay attention in a way the 2 shots didn't - as described above (though this may have been perception.) Will try to test again.

I'm quite keen to try the infiltrate option. It started as a brainstorm and I posted it here as a bit of a joke but I see some people have seen a potential. Obviously almost everyone wants to see the BB act as an assault tank (rather a bunker) and movement is the issue -however I also agree it's general movement should be consistent with the other SH tanks.

I think the resistance to the idea (and my initial dismissal) comes from the term "infiltrate." Like "walker" it is often used to represent differing abilities which result in the same effect. I think a "tank shock", "rolling assault" or "furious charge" rule would seem less strange but imply the same action.

I also think it might have the additional advantage (or problem) of giving the minervans (or Ulani) lists an additional assault unit option...

You're "walker" example makes sense Blip. Definitely puts that theory into perspective. I assume your "infiltrate/tank shock" idea would only apply to Baneblades?

You could of course argue that a stormblade's/shadowsword's plasma blastgun/volcano cannon takes too much power and so it can't power its engines enough to "infiltrate/tank shock." But what about the others?

I'm not saying it should apply to others, much less the baneblade, but I just wanted to make sure you meant this specifically for the Baneblade as there are plenty of other super heavies that could fit this rule and description.

Baneblade only (at this stage.) tbh (except the shadowsword obviously) haven't used any other SH variants in EA yet - not sure how they play.

After fielding two companys of them at Winteroffensive 14. Beside one Stormsword Coy and one Shadowsword Coy (Yes, heavy-metal style). The list altogether was to slow to be really competitive, so I tend for speeding the BB up to 20cm. Maybe the other options beside infiltrate (which I don't like) are suited to...