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Epic: Siege

 Post subject: Epic: Siege
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:30 pm 
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I'd have preferred to see the option there, but up to you.

How much of a points drop per tanks do you reckon seems about right?


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 Post subject: Epic: Siege
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:33 pm 
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I'd go with 10 for the Russ and 15 for the Demolisher, at a guess.

If you play any battles without sponsons please let me know.

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 Post subject: Epic: Siege
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:01 pm 
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Thanks! Will do. I already have a Krieg battle report half written up I'll be posting soon as I get time to.


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 Post subject: Epic: Siege
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:38 pm 
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Something totally different:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XqIvjtj2qA

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 Post subject: Epic: Siege
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:05 pm 
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Well I've done the 5cm thing a lot and it was fine. Mostly its some of the tanks in a formation which can be handy witht he command tank as it can sit back, roll forward to escape supression etc. Obviously doesn't work if you have a tank at speed 25 to start with as now its a counter-charger!

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 Post subject: Epic: Siege
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:06 pm 
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A month or so back I brought up the question of other forms of siege specific scenery; razorwire, mine fields, etc and why the Siege Supplement did not feature them, as I felt they very much should be included and that they were lacking without them. I was told me Krieg did not use such things:
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Hena: Krieg is an attacking army. They don't use razorwire.
E&C appeared to go along with this and did not comment on the matter further.

For a start I wondered whether Krieg really are definitionally an ‘attacking’ siege army in any meaningful way; yes overall in the Vraks and Mossino campaigns, - both against lower tech, also sieging, rebel humans - the Imperials generally are on the offensive. A load of time on Vraks is still spent with neither side really doing so though and at times the Vrakians or their demonic allies definitely go on the offensive. More generally though, attacking seems more down to the circumstances of the campaigns rather than a regimental characteristic of Krieg. Krieg regiments specifically request to be sent to ‘the worst battlefields in the galaxy’, on which basis it seems likely some are sent to the tryanic warzones. While fighting tyranids or other fast moving lethal close combat troops it seems pretty likely Krieg troops would generally adopt a more defensive style of siege warfare and place more emphasis on trying to gun/artillery the enemy apart from the trenches.

The other claim – that Krieg didn’t razorwire or minefield – I strongly suspected was inaccurate / uninformed, but I only got round to checking recently and I was indeed correct.

A selection of evidence from a quick browse through: the first Vraks book talks about there being “trenches and rusting razorwireâ€Â


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 Post subject: Epic: Siege
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:17 pm 
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Whilst razorwire and minefields does appear in the background, in order to make the Krieg list different to the Baran list, leaving out the 'other defences' was one method of making the Krieg list in Epic more attack-focused than the Baran list.

I am open to changing this, but personally would prefer not to ; one could assume that a Krieg army on a more defensive footing could use the Baran list, as Krieg forces would not be using Gorgons at that time, etc... ?

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 Post subject: Epic: Siege
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:49 pm 
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I would pout additional defence structures in an appendix (with points costs please).
So not only Razorwire but Turret Emplacments and Sentry Guns too.
While all these defensive structures aren't in the DKoK armylist (as Hydras are absent too) found in Vraks 1 you could assume that they would use them on the defence.

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 Post subject: Epic: Siege
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:13 pm 
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One more thing:
The WH40k list of the FKoK don't show any defensive structures but the Vraks Renegates have allof them. Thats becasue the three Vraks book concentrate on the assault of the DKoK on the Vraksian lines.
Yes the Vraksians do countercharge but usually the Vraksians are onthe denfensive and the DKoK on the offensive.
IIRC none of the historical re-fight scenarios show the DKoK use any artillery platforms (iirc only a Bombard).

On the WH40k scale this is totally ok.

But Epic is a bigger scale. There you actually have Artillery Companies on the tapble which provide preliminary bobardments.
So the staging point of an assault should be on the table too. And THATS the defensive structures.
So all defensive structures should be in the DKoK army list. Even if they are only in an appendix.

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 Post subject: Epic: Siege
PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:44 am 
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Please read my postings again.
It isn't a copy from Wh40k. Leaving out all the siegework would be a copy of Wh40k.
Epics scale is big enough to allow the presence of siegework and artillery on the table from both sides. The very starting point of an assault.




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 Post subject: Epic: Siege
PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:57 am 
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Siegeworks on both sides really isn't workable at epic scale - unless a boring static game until a 3rd turn objective grab/draw is the goal

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 Post subject: Epic: Siege
PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:01 am 
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Maybe. Maybe not. As the change to play actually against Siegemasters, Mossinians or another DeathKorps army are pretty slim considering the range of available (and official) armies :)
But remember unlike the Siegemasters which NEED their siegeworks you can built a DeathKoprs army perfectly without any siegeworks and it is still competitive.
Siegeworks should be in the list but you don't need them in your army to actually be competitive.




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 Post subject: Epic: Siege
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:46 pm 
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So what's happening with Siege? Are we there yet?  :sulk:


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 Post subject: Epic: Siege
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:53 pm 
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I've set a deadline of the new year to have it finished, which means two months of testing after I post hopefully the final list revision, probably tomorrow.

After that, I don't care about the balance of the list, it will be time to declair the journey over. :)

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