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Elysian Drop Troop
Honda
 Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:58 pm 
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I just wanted to let you guys/gals know where I was on the list.

Current thinking, things I am ruminating on or considering:

I. Three types of infantry, Hardened Veterans, Drop Troopers, and Storm Troopers

Reasoning: At first I kept thinking why the need for three types of infantry, but then I started thinking about other infantry based armies (in particular, Space Marines) and realized that there is some justification for this and the IA3 book provides for it.

So without getting into the details:

1. Storm troopers as is, not recommending any changes

2. Drop Troopers, will remove the Autocannon shots and replace them with a demo charge

3. Hardened Veterans, I'm thinking these guys are going to have a similar role as SM Scouts. They are capable of taking an interesting array of weaponry, so I'll kick these around a little bit more, before I put something to print. Expect Infiltrate and Sniper.

II. Aircraft

I've been thinking about these a fair amount as well and I am currently leaning towards three types of formations:

1. Fighter group, a two flight formation (i.e. 2 aircraft) whose primary role is interception, but can transition to ground attack if necessary.

2. Strike group, a four flight formation (i.e. 4 aircraft) whose primary role is ground attack. As they are fighter bombers, they could perform intercepts in a pinch, but its not their primary role.

3. Bombers, one or two flight formation (one or two aircraft), primary purpose is attacking tough targets like SHT, Titans, etc.

I won't be creating any new aircraft, but pulling the stats from the appendix in IA3.

III. Spacecraft

I'm going to yank this section. There isn't anything in the Elsyian list that supports them being here.

So that's where I'm at right now...

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Tactica
 Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:35 pm 
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Quote (The_Real_Chris @ 26 Feb. 2006 (23:19))
SO how do hardened vets differ from Stormtroopers?
Do they have as much armour? Is their basic weapon better or worse than a Hellgun?

TRC,

To answer your questions - Storm Troopers in 40K are not worth taking.

In 40K Elysians,

Hardened vets can Deep Strike and Infiltrate if they don't have a vehicle - storm troopers cannot. (both can take a valkyrie though)

Storm Troopers are 5-10 models per unit with 2 special weapons allowed and 1 vet sergent allowed. At most 5 plasma shots upon arrival and disembark from transport.

Vets can have a larger weapon variety. They can have 3 special weapons plus a Vet sergent. So they get one more weapon choice. They are also minimum squad size of 4 models. So you can take a tighter smaller unit. They also have access to one Demo Charge per unit (storm troopers don't get demos)

Both are Ballistic skill 4 (where the average trooper is BS3). Both have Iron Discipline. Both are Ld 8.

I see absolutely no reason in 40K to take the Storm Troopers with the Elites around.

I do not know which one is more expensive per model - Storm Troopers vs. Hardened Vet Elysians. However, I remember their costs are close.

They are both considered Elites.

In fluff, the Hardened Vets are 'top dog' to the Elysians. They are followed by the Storm Troopers, and then the Elysian Drop Troops - whom which themselves, are the elites amongst the average IG.

==============

Now, all this said. I think the Storm Troopers present something more in E:A. Storm Troopers have a defined 'baseline' for Honda to work off of. They, like the vets, are an integral part of the list overall according to the bits of fluff. The core of which is of course the drop troops themselves.

As the Storm Troopers are a baseline and don't have Demo, I think the Elysian Drop troops can be a modifier of that as they don't have as much 'plasma' in a unit, but they do bring a demo per unit. Storm Troopers at 8 units plus 4 valkyries would not be as big as a Drop Troop formaiton.

The Hardened vets bring more plasma than the storm troopers and they bring demo's per unit, but I get the since that they would not be as large of a formation as the Storm Troopers. They would also have more bonus' rules to the formation.

In E:A, I think each of these infantry formations will have a purpose.

Hope that helps the analysis TRC.

Cheers,




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Tactica
 Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:46 pm 
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Honda,

Regarding your last update of 'direction' all sounds good. I'm a little at odds with how the lack of spacecraft will impact the army, but like you - I don't see the justification for it. In E:A - I just don't see these guys dropping from orbit, more planetary dispatch.

Considering their role, it seems like their should be some support for aircraft drop - but I just don't recall seeing any text on this!

So, although it seems odd on the spacecraft front - I'm with you.

PS - I like the sound of the aircraft section. Definitely a major reliance with the Elysians per the fluff.

Cheers,

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 6:32 am 
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The justification for spacecraft is a lot of navy assets operate from cariers, and also spacecraft wouldn't be on a guard regiments TO&E

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Tactica
 Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:22 pm 
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TRC,

Its a fair point and is essentially what I'm saying. With all the aircraft and drop nature of the list, it seems like they'd have some kind of orbital landing craft - however... I just don't see how they get from Spacecraft to the valkyries and vultures and other atmospheric birds from their 40K guidance.

I guess Steel Legion don't really draw this bridge either. They just go from space craft to Maurader. So...

The marines lander and thunderhawk definitely fill that 'inbetween' role well enough. I just wish the drop troops gave some clue as to how they were dispatched from orbit.





Perhaps it just comes down to champion's vision in the end.

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Honda
 Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:22 am 
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Perhaps it just comes down to champion's vision in the end.


...and that would be..., Oh right! That's me. ?:p

So my vision is: Space assets are irrelevant to the Elysians. By the time they are ready to field, their on planet logistics have already occurred.

They are deployed into action after they've hit ground. There isn't any indication that any of their aircraft are transatmospheric, like the Barracuda or Ork Fighta-bomma, so we must assume that they establish a base of operations on planet and then deploy from there.

It is the only logical assumption to make from the fluff that we have. It would have been very easy to state in IA3 that although capable of dropping from space the Imperial command decided to set up a base, but they didn't.

So, anyway, that's my reasoning, blunt as it may be.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:50 am 
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So why do steel legion have space assets?

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Tactica
 Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:13 am 
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TRC,

Game designer vision. :p

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:29 am 
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Based on my experiences ... I would think Drop Troops (or any IG troops) would get CAS from available assets.  Whether gound based airfields or orbital.  Just like they would get Naval Gunfire Support or Orbital (Spacecraft, OWPs, etc.).  We allow all Epic forces Off Board Support (based on SM1).

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Tactica
 Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:22 pm 
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L4 and TRC,

I'm drawn in that I know all popular IG have massive Intergallactic fleets.

What I don't know is if the Elysians just mount up with one of the larger IG forces - or if they maintain their own fleet when they travel.

Now, worst case - if they simply 'hop ship' with some other IG force, should we still include that orbital support for the Elysians?

Would they be able to leverage that other forces intergallactic orbital support?

Cheers,

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:04 pm 
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Yes, the way an army gets fire and air support from the navy and air forces. Drop Troops are part of the IG, like the 101 & 82 ABN is part of the US Army.  The Elys would deploy from Imperial Navy vessels regadless ...  Sometimes you guys make this too hard ...  :;):  Drop Troops. Naval Forces, etc. deploy as part of a larger strategic plan (Normandy, Iwo, Inchon, etc.).  When in doubt, look to history or reality ... we'd probably do some things the same in the future as in the past ... whether you in the IG, Hammer's Slammers, the 101, etc. !

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Tactica
 Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:41 pm 
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Point well stated L4.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:25 pm 
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Thanks "T" !  I come from the school of "Been there ... did that !" :;):

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Honda
 Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:09 pm 
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On Space assets: Ok, I will yield on this point and add them back into the list.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:05 am 
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Space Assets = CAS and Space Vessels in support of the troops ?  That's the way we play it ...    And that's the way it was in the 101, 2ID and 197th Mech ... except we had Naval Gunfire Assets (Big Guns & missiles) and Strike Aircraft (CAS) ... not Spaceships ! :laugh:

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