Having both Kasrkin and Stormtroopers in the list is redundancy. Lose one of them.

Because kasrkin are a core formation and therefore provide 2 support formations rather than using one up

I disagree. Kasrkin and Stormtroopers are superficially similar, but fulfill very different roles in the list. Kasrkin have no option for a speed greater than 15cm. They are garrisonable without transport, but with a short frontage due to 5cm coherency. Stormtroopers are fast, with a 35cm move, while still garrsionable. They also have the option to cover a lot of frontage, something like 3m in theory. However, I'd reccomend using them as a fast reserve, just like in a Steel Legion list. The Kasrkin would be in a more traditional Heavy Infantry role.

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SG

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Ok, that´s an answer for Why dropping the rule. But those are very similar formations, and one is clearly better (scouts) even though they cost less points.

And I think being core/support has nothing to do with costs, or even the other way around, core formations are suposed to be the backbone of the army, so making them more expensive seems ilogical.

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It's worth remembering that the Kasrkin formation will have Commanders with them, so they are a bit better in that regard.

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But Commanders are worse statwise than the Kasrkin they replace, though they do have an Autocannon.

I'm not wedded to the current points level, but I'm not sure there's a huge reason to change it, either.

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SG

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That's nothing to do with the units, just their transport options in the list.

This is a list with a vast quantity of infantry types. Does anyone really think they'll be able to tell the difference between storm trooper and kasrkin from a tabletop distance?

This is the very definition of the micro-detail that should be abstracted out in epic. I believe the difference between storm troopers and kasrkin is even abstracted out at 40k scale...

I tend to think of the Kasrkin as the Cadian homebrewed troops with Stormtrooper level armamant. The Stormtroopers are the real deal, Schola Progenitum trained in small unit tactics and covert ops, and thus having Scout.

There is no doubt that the Cadians use Stormtroopers as well as Kasrkin; they have a place in the list for certain. Allowing Kasrkin to be Valk-borne would be terribly counterproductive to the list - it could be built as an "Elysian, but better" list. The Valk-borne troops would need to be in the Support section to avoid spamming. Having 8 Kasrkin in Valks is a possibility, but at that point, why would you not use a thoroughly tested formation like the Stormtrooper Platoon? If I were to pick out a potential ID problem, Whiteshields would be it. They would have only their paintjob, and not any contextual units (i.e. units that could not be taken by the other possible type) to differentiate them.

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SG

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Stormtroopers and Kasrkin are the exact same thing in 40K. Always have been as far as I can tell.

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Nah, they used to be different, lacking several scout type abilities IIRC.

*Now*, they're the same thing.

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In C:IG 3.5 they were the same (implicitly, at least). In C:EoT, there were elite Kasrkin (who were Storm Troopers) and there were normal Kasrkin (who were Troops that could not deep strike or infiltrate but who were otherwise identical). In the current IG codex, they're the same.

So there has been a difference. But it's a pretty limited one, and I'd recommend it being abstracted out somehow (Kasrkin aren't supposed to be that numerous in any case, as far as I can tell).

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I'd be fine with getting rid of Storm Troopers and just having Kasrkin in Valkyries.

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Would giving Kasrkin access to chimeras be enough to differentiate them? The only thing stopping me trying this list is the sheer amount of infantry required. When it come to Kasrkin vs stormtrooopers in my mind it's the same as 'six and half a dozen' they're the same thing, to keep in theme I'd say just re-name the Stormtroopers.

Alright, it seems there's a consensus here. I'll be changing the Stormtrooper Platoon to an Airborne Kasrkin formation, consisting of 1 IG Commander, 7 Kasrkin, and 4 Valkyries in v1.3.

I don't want to give the Core Companies Chimaeras. The theme I'm looking for is Infantry base with support, not Mech. Inf. We also have an Armored Fist Platoon in the Support, so adding a Chimaera option to the Airborne Kasrkin would dilute the elite feel.

Speaking of, what are some opinions on the Elite rule? Is it fluffy, neccessary, critical? Would you keep or drop it?

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SG

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I would drop it.
It's fluffy, but not nessesary and certainly not critical.

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