Are you kidding? This is Epic not 40k  

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This beast has to be 5+ save. Its big and very sturdy, so what if tis open topped, there are always more men to replace the dead! Plus it wouldn't have the defensive heavy bolter of the chimera version.

Adding trojans to avoid garrisoning is a good idea (garrison bad as hitting advancing troops with IC overwatch barrages is bad). You could of course still garrison but you would be paying points for the trojans that you are not deploying.

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Hydras and Manticores just have a 6+ save though. I'd be happy either way.

Think I've found an error - shouldn’t the basic cost for a Leman Russ upgrade to a formation be 140 points, so that with the plus +60 points for making the Leman Russes or Demolishers that makes it the 200 points they are in the normal guard list?

Some idle musings have been running through my over-tired brain and I thought I’d share. Is the Leman Russ upgrade ever really worth taking for completive play? For 280-400 points you can get a separate activation of 6 Russes and each can perform they’re job more optimally.

An infantry company upgraded with a Leman Russ upgrade is at least 440 points (460+ if you want at least one decent long ranged gun, 500 for 3) and suffers from being a mixed formation of AP and AT that can only shield 6 of the 20 infantry with its armoured vehicle hulls.

The background on Leman Russ variants on p120 of the first Vraks book (can’t be bothered to repeat what it says to much but have a quick read if you have it) talks about how the Siege regiments (different story in the armoured company regiments) use tank to accompany their infantry, as mobile cover across no-mans land, more than separately operating companies of tanks.

Intermingling a tank an infantry formation, would not do well with the epic rules’ disinclination to do so. What about the possibility of taking 3, 6 or 9 Leman Russ tanks as an upgrade for an infantry company though? 9 Tanks plus say a Macharius would be enough to give the entire company cover. Sure it’d be frikkin expensive; 9 Lemans plus a Macharius and the infantry would be 845-1,025 points and it’d be limited to moving 15cm. Something maybe more useable in a 4-5k+ list than a competitive 3k one, but it could be nice and ‘fluffy’ to have the option.

Thoughts?

Interesting. Would also have a very WWI imagery. Imagine MarkIV tanks crawling over no-mans-land and behind them clusters of infantry.

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Pure bang for points is not the only consideration in competitive play. BTS generally poses a problem. In a BR Hena posted about one of our games, I fielded two Gorgon-mounted companies, one of which was the SC. I didn't want the SC to be the BTS, so I upgraded the plain inf company with three Demolishers.

I found it to work well. A Gorgon-mounted company will be trying to Engage enemies. However, it generally can't do it on turn 1 and sometimes it takes until turn 3. Demolishers happen to be very good on Double firing on turn 1. Their main weapon has a 3+ Ignore Cover attack and they've got Slow Firing weapons which will recharge while you Engage on turn 2.

Adding 3 tanks to a foot infantry company seems to me like a poor idea. You lose the ability to Garrison, and you are now a target for all weapon types.

Using tanks with a Death Rider company is an idea I've been toying with, but I haven't come up with a workable concept, yet. The problem is the 40 cm Infiltrator Engage range, which is way incompatible with the tanks' 20 cm move.

Oh granted and I agree... Adding loads of Lemans to a Gorgon company could maybe make a monster BTS. It would be a big target to break or destroy, but so is a Warlord Titan, say, and this would be vulnerable to both sorts of fire. And would it really be good use of that many points? You would have a distinct activation disadvantage and it could still be clipped.

If it was to prove a problem perhaps 6 or 9 tanks could only be added only to infantry/hq companies that do not take Gorgons? You'd could then run then vanilla, Gorgon, tank or bunker flavours. Again not thinking or wanting this to be an overly competitive option for standard 3k tournament games, but more a characterful option to fit the background which could be fun to try occasionally or might make more sense in big games or 'force crosses no-mans land' games with siege vs siege battles like on Vraks or Mossino.

You could always try this in a game and see how it works.  

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

I won't object to seeing some testing, but with the way the list is structured (top heavy, with expensive Core formations and cheaper Support formations) I would be surprised if your armies remained competative.

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I’ll give it a try as a BTS sometime if I play a 5k Krieg game, might be ok there.

You've not mentioned it, but unless you say otherwise I'll assume the Leman Russ upgrade being 200 was a typo and that it should start at 140 as would make sense.

I haven't had time to check it yet but assume it's a typo if the prices are coming up wrong.

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E&C: This is related to trenches, but what is the appropriate size for a bunker (in cms)?

Thanx!

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Big enough to hold 3 stands?

I find making one fit 3 square stands is too much, so either 3 strip stands or 2 square and one strip behind them.

Course you might like the look of a 'long' bunker.

With the benefit of hind site I think the bunkers should have been to hold 2 stands not three.

I've been slowly building new bunkers that are very short to give the impression they are buried below ground and are above for a number of slit firing windows only (though how the thudd guns fire out is beyond me!).

I am now tempted to do them again this time with a heavy stubber each and maybe thinking about how to build in a rapier to the odd one.

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If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

TRC,

The reason I ask is that without any min/max definitions, what keeps a person from building a bunker that's...oh, for the sake of argument, 60 cm x 40 cm? The trenches option allows you get four of those along with 80 cms of trench. With very large bunkers someone could give their entire army +3 cover save.

I don't think that's what the intention is for "tourney" type lists.

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

This is probably a silly question, but...

When/why did the light support battery change from 3 guns (1.13b) to 4 ? Forge world still seem to sell the 40k scale batteries as 3 guns.

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v1.15 iirc. It's because the DKoK uses 4 strong batteries. All other IG armies use 3 strong batteries.

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