Indeed, it would probably be more better (I just edited it), although I envisionned it unloading its cannon of doom at point blank range (with its fast rotating turrets)

Do you think this is an imbalance caused by the points-to-capability of the tank (i.e. it's just better for the points), or do you think that the list overall has a weakness in the list structure that the Stormhammer is particularly good at countering?

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Neal

Hmm.  Interesting question and I hadn't drilled down that far.  I'd have to say the former; it is a lot of dice and it kills really well.  

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

I'd agree that it's currently just better compared to the other super-heavies, particularly the baneblade which is the nearest equivilent. I don't think it unbalances the list overall particularly, but it's noticably the better option.

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

Internal balance is nice, but the external balance is more important for the "fun factor."  I understand the desire to have the tanks be roughly equal but if the army is on the weak side overall, what purpose does it serve to weaken one of the few strong performers?  It seems like it's risking turning a borderline list into something noticeably underpowered.

Maybe there should be some sort of offsetting boost elsewhere?

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Neal

I understand the concern, Neal.  The army review is coming up soon and I think what needs to be done with the army is adding some flexibility to it which will certainly offset a loss of firepower (one thing this list is not is short on firepower).  Hena had some ideas last year that are promising and I think they are worth playtesting.

One thing I want to make sure we do is not go whacky with a bunch of changes to the list: a nudge here, a nudge there.  The concerns that the list is too inflexible needs to be addressed, but not to the point where it becomes abused by min-maxing.  Hena's idea for an additional formation type might do the trick.  Im open to other ideas as well, just as long as everyone understands and appreciates that I'm asking for suggestions, not asking to run the gauntlet.  Think small change and realize your idea might not get picked.  If you can handle that we'll get along fine and the process will be much smoother for everyone.  

Back on the Stormhammer, I'll take some time to read over the suggestions and re-post what I think we should try playtesting.  Y'all can then verify here if you think it is close enough to what we need to do with the Stormhammer (it may not fit your specific vision, but if you think it is a viable, well costed unit, then that is the most important thing).  Once we've come to some agreement, I'll ask y'all to playtest it and see what results we get.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

The concerns that the list is too inflexible needs to be addressed

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

E&C,  note my extreme focus on "nudges" and "little change".  One suggestion Hena made was a different support formation that was less expensive but had more staying power than the scouts.  I'm not saying it is needed, but that I am open to considering it, that's all.  

I promise I will not allow the list to get to the position of 'overpowered'.  Your council will be specifically sought out on any changes to the list.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Before I post the revised changes for the Minervan list I want to (no pun intended) hammer this unit in place.  My two thoughts:

1. Go with a Nicea Pattern Stormhammer as seen in the Mossinian list.
MOSSINIAN STORMHAMMER (NICEA PATTERN)
Type Speed Armour Close Combat Firefight
War Engine 15cm 4+ 6+ 3+
Weapons Range Firepower Notes
2 x Twin Snub Battlecannons 45cm AP3+/AT3+ -
4 x Heavy Stubbers 30cm AP6+ -
Defensive Boltgun Array (15cm) Small Arms Extra Attacks (+1)
Damage Capacity 3. Critical Hit: The Stormhammer’s magazine explodes. The Stormhammer is destroyed, and any units within 5cm of the model suffer a hit on a D6 roll of 6+.
Notes: Reinforced Armor, Thick Rear Armour, Walker

Pro's: uniformity across lists, focuses the Stormhammer as a FF unit which most people agree it should be

Con's: given the state of flux the Mossinians are in, I don't know if this would be uniform by the time the Mossinian list is finalized. Out of the gate I also see 3+ FF +1EA as possibly too much and the Walker function being over-the-top (this is only based on intuition, no games to back it up).

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2.  Go with a mixture of suggestions made on this thread and others as the following...
STORMHAMMER (FLOGUSUS PATTERN)Type         Speed   Armour   Close Combat FirefightWar Engine   15cm    4+       6+           4+Weapons                               Range  Firepower       Notes2 x Twin Snub Battlecannons Turret     30cm   AP3+/AT3+       -4 x Heavy Bolter                       30cm   AP5+            -Defensive Boltgun Array               (15cm)  Small Arms      Extra Attacks (+1) Damage Capacity 3. Critical Hit: The Stormhammer’s magazine explodes.  The Stormhammer is destroyed, and any units within 5cm of the model suffer a hit on a D6 roll of 6+.Notes: Reinforced Armor, Thick Rear Armour

The extra attack at a 4+ FF will be about the same as a 3+FF without the extra attack.  The wider distribution will give it a bit more potential in assaults which probably outweighs consistency in this case.

Feedback would be appreciated.
I don't wa

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

If 4+ with an extra attack is near to equal with 3+, just go with 3+.

Epic should try and use less dice wherever possible.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Yes, there will be a Minervan thread calling for the potential changes.  I just want to make sure the playtest thread doesn't turn into a giant theoryhammer discussion.  If you have any ideas on non-Stormhammer issues and how you think they should be changed, PM or email me or feel free to make an independent thread and we'll play with it.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

You can just say 'It was Chris's fault'

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