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Minervan Tank Regiment 1.6
The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Minervan Tank Regiment 1.6
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:51 pm 
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As I mentally plan out an army I could have (as I suspect I must be in the top 5% of players when it comes to numbers of 'Guard AFV's), the thunderer comes out come and more as a curious beast.

As effectively an infantry gun/assault gun should its speed go up? Its not in theory a weapon to support armour so much as to support infantry.

So what would the effect of 25 or even 30cm move a turn be? 20cm is too slow to keep up with the chimera, and in that case why not go for a Demolisher? Bit more points lot more firepower. Higher spped than that would give it a clear mech infantry support role. Hell i would exchange 3 demolishers with full weapons fits for 3 thunderers with just the main gun if they could go at 30cm. Now it would be a weapon that wouldn't slow down my nippy chimera.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Minervan Tank Regiment 1.6
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:08 pm 
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If anyone has Imperial Armour I, I'd appreciate a posting as to the 'fluff' top speed of the standard Leman Russ, and the Leman Russ Thunderer.

Cheers. :)




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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Minervan Tank Regiment 1.6
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:18 pm 
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I know a man on messenger who does :)

He has sent the following vehicles top speeds as decided by FW.

'Russ 35kph
Demolisher 28kph
Exterminator 40kph
Conquerer 34kph
Thunderer 32kph
Executioner 30kph
Destroyer 50kph
Vanquisher 30kph/32kph (two patterns)
Salamander scout 100kph
Salamander command 70kph
Chimera 70kph
Trojan 80kph
Hydra 50kph
Manticore 60kph
Medusa 60kph
Basilisk 35kph
Baneblade 25kph
Shadowsword 25kph
Atlas 34kph
Cyclops 43kph (?)


Course all this makes no reference to tactical speed. IG tanks are like WWII ones that have to be stationary to fire accurately so that would be a big factor. Stuff like the destroyer would take a lot longer over a shot, but go a lot faster otherwise and so on. The conqueror higher speed tactically according to its description is all about an easier to use main gun.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Minervan Tank Regiment 1.6
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:54 pm 
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Agreed, speeds in Epic are 'operational' rather than maximum (Ie: The Conqueror is described as being able to fire accurately on the move).

I could see 25cm speed as possibly being justified on Thunderers.


Guys?

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Minervan Tank Regiment 1.6
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:18 pm 
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Wonder if the salamander command speed should be the same as a chimera?

Hell the destroyer should be a bit nippier with that top speed.

I think ultimately there FW speeds should be a minor consideration, instead stick with expected role and tactical use.

Do you see the Thunderer being used like a 'Russ? Do you see it being faster to use than a demolisher?

I guess i see it haring along with the chimera, then slamming to a stop in front of a strong point and not moving till said strong point was reduced (unless under heavy fire of course).

Question is how does being turretless affect it? Any AFV experts care to chime in (where's L4? :) ).

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Minervan Tank Regiment 1.6
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:25 pm 
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Nah, the Salamander would be nipping about faster than the rest of the formation, keeping an eye on things.


The Destroyer, well Tank Destroyers are prone to sitting still most of the time in cover waiting for a target, so I wanted to keep the speed lowish. Plus there's balance considerations.


I always saw the Thunderer as being a slow, rather inferior vehicle really, as fluffwise it's a damaged, repaired vehicle, used for siegework (Street to street slow fighting).

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Minervan Tank Regiment 1.6
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:55 am 
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The speeds given above are on-road speed.

Here the off-road speed:

Leman Russ 21kph
Demolisher 17kph
Exterminator 24kph
Conqueror 24kph
Thunderer 22kph
Executioner 18kph
Destroyer 36kph
Vanquisher 19kph/18kph (two patterns)
Salamander scout 68kph
Salamander command 55kph
Chimera 55kph
Trojan 60kph
Hydra 35kph
Manticore 45kph
Medusa 35kph
Basilisk 21kph
Baneblade 18kph
Shadowsword 18kph
Stormblade 18kph
Stormsword 18kph
Atlas 20kph
Cyclops 24kph (?)

Human jogging speed ca 10kph :D




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Ilushia
 Post subject: Minervan Tank Regiment 1.6
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:04 am 
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I always knew 40K units were sub-par. But wow, those tanks are -slow-! XD
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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Minervan Tank Regiment 1.6
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:54 am 
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Oh did I suggest already having heavy bolter or lascannon? (Says the man with a lot of broken lascannon and a lot of thunderhawk heavy bolters.)

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Minervan Tank Regiment 1.6
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:43 am 
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You did suggest it... but I don't think it's appropriate for the stock list (As few conversions as possible)

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ragnarok
 Post subject: Minervan Tank Regiment 1.6
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:43 pm 
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Quick question.  When was the Executioner's cannon firepower increased from MW5+ slow firing to MW4+.

I'm wondering if this is something just for the tank regiment or a concenuses of the true firepower of the tank.

I'm only asking since I have 12 of the buggers (10 with heavy bolter sponsors and two with multimeltas) for a Ryzaesque techguard list.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Minervan Tank Regiment 1.6
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:48 pm 
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Personally i find this very strange because the Plasma Destroyer is nothing else as a Plasma Cannon with increased range.

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Soren
 Post subject: Minervan Tank Regiment 1.6
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:56 pm 
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slow firing is imho crap in a game which normally lasts 3 turns. I cannot believe that the weapon is shooting only every 30 minutes. Nobody would use such a system as the main armament of a MBT. :;): I can see the usage as a secondary armament on titans, but not on their smaller cousins. Kay, maybe lower the damage potential, but let them shoot every turn, not just every other.




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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Minervan Tank Regiment 1.6
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:38 pm 
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Slow-firing only for titan-weapons makes sense.
Perhabs the Bombard can keep it but i doubt that it is really justified.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Minervan Tank Regiment 1.6
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:27 am 
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Oh sorry, TRC ... I missed my que !  :) Turretless AFVs, like assault guns, lack the "flexibility" of an MBT because the main gun cannot traverse 360??????? degrees.  However for game purposes, it really does not affect anything, IMO. The real problem would be as a target closed the range, the limited traverse of a fixed main gun would cause the vehicle to pivot steer on it's tracks to zero in on the target. As far as speed goes, IMO, all AFVs with the same chassis should travel at the same speeds (operational or road). Unless the main weapon is exceptionally large and/or the armor has been increased. In the past some Assault Gun AFVs types had increased frontal armor and a larger main gun.  So, if anything a turretless AFV with a bigger main gun + increased armor would move slower but have a higher survivablity (SAVE, AR rating,etc.)... And open top AFVs, like the Salmander would have less survivability ...    Hope that helps ...

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