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Death Korps of Krieg v1.4
J0k3r
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.4
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:54 pm 
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Hey E&C,

Looking good.  As an alternative for the SC how about downsizing it to a platoon and giving it a bunker and some trenches ala the baran list?  Could be the best of both worlds...

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.4
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:25 am 
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In the stats-table for the SC there it says DK Commander, not DK Supreme Commander in the header :)

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.4
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:14 pm 
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Looking good.  As an alternative for the SC how about downsizing it to a platoon and giving it a bunker and some trenches ala the baran list?  Could be the best of both worlds...

I was indeed thinking of downsizing the SC platoon, maybe embedding him in Storm Troopers, I'm not entirely sure yet, there's very little precedence to go on here.

I'm wary of including trenchworks, at least as they were done in the Barran list. I'd prefer something a little less rugged, giving only a 4/5+ armour save... but on the flipside I don't want to introduce too many special rules to the list.

Currently there are two special rules from the main IG list, one from the Eldar list, and one unique one.

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J0k3r
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.4
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:50 am 
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Hmm, regarding the special rules I'd question the need for lance- for the Medusa a formation should be formidable enough with ignore cover alone, while for the LR destroyer a MW attack would be equally as suitable.  If your wasting destroyer shots on infantry then having lance vs MW is of little significance.  

To my mind Lance is one special rule that would be easy to lose.  Having said that I assume this will make the cut into the core rules in the rules review as it is more a weapon rule than a special rule per-se.  

In that case you have the core IG rules plus weak rear armour which is again a minor rule and gives flavour to the DK signature unit.  Another signature thing about the death corp to my mind should be the command structure so I wouldnt shy away from special rules for the supreme commander based upon fear of special rule proliferation alone.

Habing said that I can also see your issues with the baran  fortifications too.  

I woudl not think that the SC should be in a stormtrooper unit- Commanders shgould be weak combat units that spend most time planning and corrdinating rather than clobbering stuff.  Incidentally this is one of the things in 40k that really bugs me :)


Anyway if this helps heres two more options:

1) A formation consisting  7 troopers, 1 SC and 3 bunkers.  

Bunker stats:

WE 0cm, Armour 4+, CC -, FF 5+

Weapon Point defence FF
--
DC3, Reinforced  Armour, Transport 3, Transported troops can use their FF/CC in assault

2) A formation consisting  9 troopers and 1 SC plus 30cm of trenches and 3 bunkers (Or whatever you feel is balanced)

Fortification set up special rule and lower save mods appropriately.  Justification for this could be more aggressive nature of DK leads to more hurried trenches than barran seigemasters tend to prepare.  Think british vs germans WW1. :)  Incidentally I like this idea as it would give you somewhere to shelter the arty behind...

Anyway, feel free to modify/ignore as appropriate.  Also should be able to playtest a Dk army next time I put together a game :)




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J0k3r
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.4
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 1:14 am 
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Also was thinking of some fluff stuff.  

For the Stormblade how about adding.  "The strengths of the stormblade in city fighting were aptly demonstrated during the 3rd battle for Hesperas Hive.  Vastly outnumbered, a battalion of Death Korps armour led by Maj. Mikel Von Wittmann's three stromblades counter attacked traitor forces.  During the ensuing battle Wittmanns company alone gutted two armoured regiments, turning the tide of battle.  Although Wittmann himself was killed by a traitor airstrike, he is forever remembered as a hero of the Death Korps.

Ok, I know its a horrendous rip off but I like it :)  If youd rather the story could be used for  the LR vanquisher..

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.4
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 11:20 pm 
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Forgeworld has released rules for two new Death Korps units today.

So we have:

The Heavy Mortar: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/heavymort1.htm

The Imperial Centaur: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/centaur1.htm


I'd like to bring these into the list by:


- Adding the Heavy Mortar to the list (As an Upgrade choice with the same stats as a Griffon's Heavy Mortar as it's meant to be the exact same weapon) with 1BP, 30cm range, indirect.

- Adding the Centaur to the list should also be easy, as the Brunnhilde Tractor bears a passable resemblance to the Centaur. Slightly uprated stats would be needed (A lower-armoured Chimera carrying a Heavy Stubber would be a good analogy... it's not as slow or jury-rigged as a Brunnhilde).

So for the Centaur:

Speed 30cm.
Armour 6+
Close Combat 6+
Firefight 6+
Heavy Stubber AP6+ 30cm
Notes : Transport (May carry one Heavy Mortar OR Thudd Gun AND one infantry stand).


And for the Heavy Mortar:

Speed 10cm.
Armour n/a
Heavy Mortar 30cm 1BP Indirect
Firefight 6+
Close Combat 6+



The Thudd gun will stay in the list (They ARE coming back to 40k), but will have its transport option changed from the Chimera to the Centaur.

Both the Centaur and the Heavy Mortar find themselves with passable proxies (Especially the Motar)  in the Barran 'Siege Artillery Battery' set.


Thoughts on points costs:

Worth the same as a Thudd Gun battery?

More?
Less?

The Thudd gun has a much greater range and can hit infantry more reliably, while the Heavy Mortar has a shorter range, but has BP.

I'd be tempted to give them the same price, but with a note that makes them 0-1 per formation (So that it's impossible to gain a silly-cheap 9BP of mortars protected by a huge infantry formation). Thudd guns could be more common since there's no cheap synergy there.




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Lion in the Stars
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.4
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:59 am 
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Honestly, I'd throw the heavy mortars in a separate platoon, separate activation.  That's how the description goes in the Heavy Mortar fluff on the FW website, and how heavy mortars work IRL.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.4
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:33 am 
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Yep, that is a good point ! :D

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.4
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:41 am 
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And I like the F/W models, I'd like to see those in 6mm. ?The Centaur-type conversion would be easy to make with a L/Russ without a turret and maybe just an E40K hatch w/Hvy Bolter ... ?So would the mortar ...

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Justiniel
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.4
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:01 am 
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That mortar is exactly the look I wanted for my horse drawn artillery, hurry up and release a 6mm version  :laugh:
Great list by the way, and progressing nicely, now to see if I can dig out the troops and put together an army.

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ragnarok
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.4
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:48 am 
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Why do I want to get one of those heavy mortars and convert it to an epic ordinartus?

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.4
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:50 pm 
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Because it's expensive ?!  :D

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.4
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:41 pm 
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(Lion in the Stars @ Nov. 15 2006,23:59)
QUOTE
Honestly, I'd throw the heavy mortars in a separate platoon, separate activation.  That's how the description goes in the Heavy Mortar fluff on the FW website, and how heavy mortars work IRL.

That's a worthy point... it might be best to see Thudd Guns moved to a seperate activation too if that were done, as they have the same description.

The Centaur-type conversion would be easy to make with a L/Russ without a turret and maybe just an E40K hatch w/Hvy Bolter ...


True, although a little large it'd be passable, especially if a good dozer blade could be obtained. As E40k hatches & dozers are OOP however, I'll probably recomend the Brunnehilde in the list document.

So would the mortar ...

The mortar is about the simplest 'conversion' I can imagine... take the Griffon's Mortar and stick it on a base, done!

GW have made many suitable sized mortars over the years, finding good proxies will not be difficult I'd imagine.

Why do I want to get one of those heavy mortars and convert it to an epic ordinartus?

Now that's a very interesting idea. :)

What would you use as a big enough self-mobile gun carriage however?




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vanvlak
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.4
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:22 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Nov. 16 2006,18:41)
QUOTE
Why do I want to get one of those heavy mortars and convert it to an epic ordinartus?


Now that's a very interesting idea. :)

What would you use as a big enough self-mobile gun carriage however?

A large 1/76 scale tank chassis or a 1/35 scale tankette chassis :cool: .

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.4
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:30 pm 
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Again, if it's to go in the list's reccomended conversion list, every component would have to be available from GW/SG/FW.

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