They all look great Happy with an artillery company now it's a support choice.

I'd like the choice of taking Trojans / Emplacements or nothing I think, in most games I imagine I would take some of each (I did in my game yesterday) but it adds an extra level of tactical decision making with the list. If popcorning should shows itself to be a bad problem that could be a fix, but I like the options and choice as is, whereas this would constrain list designs some.

Would you consider an optional upgrade to an infantry's trenchworks so that if they have added extras such as heavy weapons or an extra infantry platoon to their company these can fit in the trenches too. For them to be prepared enough to construct numerous great big concrete bunkers but to not be able to construct enough trenches for all their own forces to be in and for some poor Kriegers to have to stand nearby out in the open with almost signs on their chests saying 'shoot us' seems a bit silly and annoying.

Undocumented change: I increased the Death Korps trenchlines from 50cm to 80cm, meaning that the 20 units of an infantry company will fit inside the trenches, and the bunkers are now 'extras' for use by attachments / other units.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

No Medusas or Bombards for the Artillery Company?
Page 104/5 shows the 3rd Heavy Artillery Company. It has 9 Bombards.

And you had some names wrong if you go by the naming in the Vraks books.
Light Support Battery should be Field Artillery Battery.
Fire Support Battery should be Fire Support Platoon.
Heavy Support Battery should be Artillery Battery.
Self-Propelled Support Battery should be Heavy Artillery Battery.

The extra Infantry for the Quad-launchers/Heavy Mortars should be bases 3 models on the base and 2 on the gun itself. So they add up the 5 crew per gun.
And i think the Quad-launcher should have a range of 30cm. In Wh40k the Quad-lauincher has a range of G12-60" and the Heavy Mortar a range of G12-48". This would be 60cm and 45cm range in Epic if firing indirectly so the base range should be 30cm and 22,5cm but the Heavy Mortar already has an established range of 30cm (rulebook Griffon has exatcly the same weapon). So changing the Heavy Mortars range is out of the question.
With the reduced range to 30cm the Quad-launcher might be easier to balance against the Heavy Mortar.

Oh and you have to glue 5 horses on a base to represent a full strength Death Rider Company and then the Command Squadron is still missing

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/

Could have Bombards. Not Meduasa though.


All sound cool.


Don't think we're going to go with that solution anymore, we're gonna reduce to 3 guns, for balance.




Can't have a command stand in the Death Rider company, it ends up just too awesome.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/

Assuming its 9 guns and emplacements/centaurs for 600 points can you do a 1-1 swap with bombards? Or does it need to be a + points option (I've never tried a company of  them, can't imagine them being that hot, which chassis do you use for Krieg?).





Saying that 2 things.

First off isn't for a stand alone formation 125 in emplacements is pretty good - so you have the artificial limit of 0-1. Would it not be better to raise the cost with some extra infantry than have the 0-1. It doesn't have to be one infantry stand per gun, can just be a couple.

Also are you changing the guns stat to 5+ or is it a choice between one 60cm 3bp barrage and 90cm 6x3+?



Well you could make a command stand that offers next to nothing over a normal stand (+1 save maybe?).


Yes, the only reason you wouldn't take them is if you were points min maxing (like on that AA list earlier which still no-one has pointed out any obvious flaws for!).

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

I don't see the problem with not having an official command stand for the Death Riders - stick a commissar in the company, paint up that stand to include both command guys and a commissar, job done. Similarly an infantry company where you have complained about there not being a second command section in the infantry company do the same there - model the second commander on the commissar stand.


You do realise it is 0-1 per company and not 0-1 in the army? I fail to see why this is some massive problem - until very recently the army has been able to take a single 3 strong upgrade of the guns per infantry company. Now you are able to take a single 3 strong detachment of the guns per any company so you are able to take 2 more in the army than you used to till very recently. Keeping them 0-1 just limits people spamming them and getting excessively popcorny (if you take these they now take up a support slot though so limiting other options a bit).

New thought from flicking through the Krieg list last night: W40k Bombards come with a free Trojan which isn't for moving it around at all but carries the ammunition it needs and which the Bombard doesn't have internally. Perhaps it would be characterful to include 3 Trojans as standard in a Bombard formation? (it carries the ammo the vehicle needs and I reckon FW would have made them mandatory for a Bombard if they didn't think the extra £ might put some people off buying it).

I was aware of that (sorry if I was unclear?), I was just indicating the 0-1 didn't suddenly limit you to taking less of your favourite little guns than you'd been used to, in fact slightly the opposite.

Yes they are a small cheap seperate formation, but they take up a support slot which they previously didn't so if you take them you don't take a something else you might have taken before (assuming you were maxing out your support slots which is often the case) and they cost more than AA guns so they're not even the cheapest option that creates any more spam possibilities than existing before. If mandatory trojans/emplacements come in then this becomes even less of a problem.

Yes, and I'm sure if the cost can go up a bit you could lose the 0-1 per company restriction.

Still no comments ont he AA gun list above?..



I think thats neat However not if the SG bombard model is being used (which is no in the same league I think as the leman russ bombard!).

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

I dunno the gun on the SG Bombard is massive and of around a similar size. Guess it depends if E&C want to represent the current FW style or the older retro unit too, as well as perhaps whether he ever has any plans to model a 'BomBom Sieging Tank.' I quite like the idea of non-combat units like Trojans about the place and would love to be able to use some Atlases in the army too, though that's not sure that's worth officially bothering with for the list.

The AA list does look pretty nasty, you can do a similar but even worse thing with the Barran list can't you? What's the solution there if there was one? I'm not really up on the Barrans. I am coming round more to the idea that Trojans / Emplacements should be mandatory to cut down on such abuse some.

600pts feels a little cheap for a Bombard company, but I guess it could be tried.


Then you tend to end up with the odd situation of having the Light battery costing more than the Heavy battery... odd.


What would you suggest balances them against each other?
I've always seen the original Thudd Gun stats as being superior, personally.


As Glyn says, Commissar Counts-As covers this.


The obvious flaw about the AA list is that it's evil and the work of satan... which is one reason I've suggested compulsory entrenchments for the guns.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I do have plans to model a modern style (Russ hull) bombard at some point (which, funnily enough, looks a heck of a lot like the 2nd ed. Bombard, when FW made their 40k scale one they clearly based it on the old Epic: Space Marine model, not the Epic 40,000 model).


There was some spitballing early on with the Krieg list about using Atlases as engineering vehicles, but nothing ever came of it.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter