Er, Swordwind specifies that the are an "Imperial Guard army", and that they *could* be used to represent a Planetary Governer's PDF.

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If they are an Imperial Guard army then they would be arriving off planet and wouldn't be originating from Baran.

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The Barans are the original Krieg regiments that settled the planet renamed; Swordwind describes them as an Imperial Guard regiment... they just happend to defend the planet they're mustered on, different from the usual protocol.

To turn this around: Why do the Heavenly Choir PDF forces *need* to have access to Deathstrikes in their army list?

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To have at least one Titan-killer weapon to counter enemy War Engines.

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Couldn't that niche be filled with superheavies? Doomhammer, Hellsword, Banehammer, Hammerbane, whatever the hell those 18 or so shadowsword variants were, there must be a ghetto titan killer among them!

without rereading the whole thread, didn't you mention earlier that there would be some new super heavies in the list? couldn't you incorporate a titan killer in there somehow?
although i must admit that since i have a silo for my upcoming krieg army it would be nice to ue it in another list.

Space Marines don't have an organic TK weapon...  I can see having one as a "want", but not a "need" for the list.

I think it's a nice weakness for a list to have and it can be shored up a bit with other Super-Heavies and such.

Or just massed AT shots!  *laugh*

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Well Stormlords have massed AT shots (ok only 4 x AT5+ plus 2 Lascannon sponsons).
Stormlords stats can be found in posting #16.

Theother three SHT are this:

Banehammer
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
War Engine 15cm 4+ 6+ 4+
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Tremor Cannon 60cm 1BP Disrupt, Fixed Forward Arc
Twin Heavy Bolter 30cm AP4+ -
2 x Lascannon 45cm AT5+ -
2 x Heavy Bolter 30cm AP5+ -

Damage Capacity 3. Critical Hit Effect: The Banhammer's magazine explodes. The Banehammer is destroyed, and any units within 5cm of the model suffer a hit on a D6 roll of 6.

Notes: Reinforced Armour. Transport (may carry two Ogryn or any five of the following units: Imperial Guard units: Supreme Commander, Commander, Infantry, Fire Support, Snipers).

Banesword
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
War Engine 15cm 4+ 6+ 4+
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Banesword Quake Cannon 75cm 2BP Macro-weapon, Fixed Forward Arc
Twin Heavy Bolter 30cm AP4+ -
2 x Lascannon 45cm AT5+ -
2 x Heavy Flamer 15cm AP3+ -

Damage Capacity 3. Critical Hit Effect: The Banesword's magazine explodes. The Banesword is destroyed, and any units within 5cm of the model suffer a hit on a D6 roll of 6.

Notes: Reinforced Armour.

Doomhammer
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
War Engine 15cm 4+ 6+ 4+
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Magma Cannon 60cm MW4+ Fixed Forward Arc
Twin Heavy Bolter 30cm AP4+ -
2 x Lascannon 45cm AT5+ -
2 x Heavy Bolter 30cm AP5+ -

Damage Capacity 3. Critical Hit Effect: The Doomhammer's energy coil explodes. The Doomhammer is destroyed, and any units within 5cm of the model suffer a hit on a D6 roll of 6.

Notes: Reinforced Armour. Transport (may carry two Ogryn or any five of the following units: Imperial Guard units: Supreme Commander, Commander, Infantry, Fire Support, Snipers).

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I really think with this list you need to decide what you want - a list to make use of newly available models and then write new fluff to allow this or a list that makes use of the  heavenly planet fluff and then tailor the list to that. ATM the list really doesn't fit with your fluff.

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I think a Heavy Infantry army supported by Heavy Transports fits the fluff if it comes to the lethalness of Heaven.
The Jumppack Infantry seems to not fit as sad as i find it.

Ok lets go definition and whats fit:
Infantry is heavy armoured either through personal armour or armoured transports to protect them from Heavens lethal atmosphere and flora.

Favoured weapons are either rapid firing solid shots or high explosives to make maximum advantage about collateral damage through splintering flora.

Combat doctrine of the Heavenly Choir demands high concentration of troops so super-heavy Transports with large transport capacity are favoured.
Not sure if i should exclude Chimeras.

The Leman Russ chassis is a rare sight on Heaven the Malcador chassis is much more common.

No Aircrafts or Skimmers because the atmosphere would make them useless in short time.

No RoughRiders because the mounts would quickly succumb to the atmosphere and flora. Instead Bikes are used.

Sentinels aren't used as Scouts (Bikes are used for this because they are faster) instead they are used as Infantry support. Also they are more heavily armoured to withstand the atmospere and flora (= Armoured Sentinels from current Codex IG).

As super-heavy transports are relatively slow the Heavenly Choir makes extensive use of fast tanks. So they use Hellhounds and their variants (Devildog and Banewolf).

No Deathstrike Missilelaunchers. At least not with the TK-warhead. An explosive version might do better.

I guess thats it. Thoughts? Any ideas to add/remove?

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Sounds good to me.


Seems like they would be fans of Griffons. Perhaps a price discount for Griffons would be appropriate (and frankly, they need one regardless).


I'd be inclined to keep a Chimera formation as a Support Formation.


Zero Leman Russes then. That sounds fine.


Great theme choice, and a tangible drawback to compensate for their awesome heavy transport (the Stormlord).


Righto. Little tangible difference there, if you intend to use the Biker stats from Siege.


What weapon will this Sentinel have?


Not sure how keen I am on incorporating the Devildog and Banewolf in this particular list.

Feels like they could more belong in an Armoured Cavalry type list.


See below:


In order to compensate for the loss of the Deathstrike, how about using Deathstrike silos ala the Death Korps list?

Alternatively, just make do with only Valdors as their TK weapon (an army list requiring its player to manouever to win games is never a bad thing!).


Will this list get Titan backup? Do Titans appear in the war?

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According to Codex ImperialGuard the Armoured Sentinel (which stats translate to a Speed 15cm AV with a 5+ save) it can be equipped with a Multi-laser, Autocannon, Plasma Cannon, Heavy Flamer or Missile Launcher.
So perhabs the Lascannon as a Tank Hunting Infantry supporter?

According to Vraks 3 the Valdors Neutron-Laser Projector is just a Demolisher Cannon without a blast-template but which does more damage to a vehicle. I tend to give it a 75cm AT2+ Disrupt shot perhabs with Macro-weapon in the notes of the weapon so MW only affects vehicles. So no actual TK. With this it looks more like a Light Shadowsword (even as a 4+RA save AV instead of a 4+ save 2DC WE) which i like somewhat

The Minotaurs would be in the list too. Its Twin Earthshaker would be 120cm 2BP or AP3+/AT3+ with Indirect Fire (for BP only).

No Titans for the Heavenly Choir (there isn't a Legio stationed on Heavem)but obvioulsy the Red Corsairs will have some.

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That weapon doesn't actually appear on the list you just wrote out...


It's at least MW status, if not TK, and should have Disrupt you're right.

Zombocom commented to me just now, the Valdor should have either a 4+ TK shot (which is what I gave it, IIRC) or a 2+ MW shot.


That causes heinous ammounts of problems if you want to field Malcadors in companies (and you do, because they look awesome like that!).

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I know but giving them the same weapon as the Infantry is a bit pointless if they can take Fire Support units with twice the firepower which can hide in the formation because they aren't another target type.



But it is as effective as a Railguns solid-shot against infantry (or a Lascannon to mention a more widespread weapon) = it kills only one Infantry-man per shot. Not enough to justify any AP ability. Giving it a straight put MW shot will enable the Valdor to hit Infantry with the Neutron-Laser Projector which is just wrong.

But i agree it borders on TK* but Strength D weapons qualivy more as a TK weapon.

*an AT shot with TK in the notes just as the LR Destroyer in Epic: Raiders. But according to the current IA1 Errata the Laser Destroyer is the same now as a Neutron-Laser Projector but with Ap2 instead of 1 and without the automatic Crew Stunned effect.

To compare:

Demolisher:
Range 24" Strength 10, Armourpiercing 2, Blast 5", Ordnance 1

Laser Destroyer:
Range 72", Strength 10, Armourpiercing 2, Ordnance 1

Neutron Laser-Projector:
Range 72", Strength 10, Armourpiercing 1, Ordnance 1, ShockPulse**
**additional automatic Crew Stunned result on the damag etable against non-WE


As WE you could purchase a Malcador Command Tank which allows you to field up to 3 Malcador Squadrons (3 Malcadors each). Each Squadron and the Command Tank would be separate formations.
Just an idea

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I think I probably got a bit carried away with the Tank Destroyer when writing its stats.

If I were writing the Minervan list now, I'd probably go with:

-  AT4+, Macro-Weapon

for the Tank Destroyer, thus allowing the Valdor to either be:

-  AT2+, Macro-Weapon, Disrupt
OR less likely:
- AT4+, Titan-Killer, Disrupt

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