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Epic: Siege v1.13

 Post subject: Epic: Siege v1.13
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:21 pm 
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1. Trenchworks. Why are these as expensive as Siegemasters while having 2 bunkers less and no razorwire.

Honestly they're too cheap in the Siegemasters army list.

2. Earthshaker is missing the notes preventing non BP shots being fired in inderect fire.
the Engineers are missing from the unit list in p.47.
I'll get those.

3. Gorgons BP weapons are rather automatic choice. That unit most likely won't be able to fire more than once anyway. I'd say drop the BP to 1 on them and remove Indirect as I think it's supposed to be assault support weapon and not artillery piece.
Interesting, we've gravitated towards the Heavy Bolters instead.

4. Shadowsword should have normal heavy bolters or cost more.
This WYSIWYG stat update hasn't caused any problems in the Minervan army list ; how often does a Shadowsword actually use its Heavy Bolters anyway?




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 Post subject: Epic: Siege v1.13
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:32 pm 
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Quote: (Hena @ 25 Jun. 2009, 18:28 )

Few times, though rather rare event. However same cost, but better unit is not something that should be done. This isn't some silly WYSIVYG game so that is rather bad excuse.

Could you post some battle reports of your games so one could see how it's used there?

If making them twin makes them say 5 or 10 points better, thats simply ignored in Epic.
Though perhaps in the steel legion list shadowswords should be 205 points each with twin heavy bolter? :)

Lots of models have 'stretch' or elasticity in their costs to add extras with little noticable effect.




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 Post subject: Epic: Siege v1.13
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:33 pm 
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Why? How many times you are using them? The BP weapons give 8BP shot which is 3 templates.


Not unless you have 4 Gorgons they don't.

You get 2BP per Gorgon.

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 Post subject: Epic: Siege v1.13
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:37 pm 
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Quote: (Hena @ 25 Jun. 2009, 18:35 )

Why did I think there would be 8BP :blush:

You have nightmares thinking about the three Valk formations you face? Only SL transports get 8BP, Disrupt :)


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 Post subject: Epic: Siege v1.13
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:39 pm 
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Then just remove the Indirect


No; they're an indirect fire weapon in Warhammer 40,000 / the background; that'd be like making the Basilisk into a direct firing only vehicle.

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 Post subject: Epic: Siege v1.13
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:41 pm 
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Could you post some battle reports of your games so one could see how it's used there?


My usual use for Gorgons is in Engagements, using their armour at the front of the formation to buff the infantry's engagement power.

Shooting with them is very much a second-best choice.




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 Post subject: Epic: Siege v1.13
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:56 pm 
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Irrelevant to me are the 40k rules.

In Warhammer 40,000 it is a mortar weapon with the same range as a Griffon heavy mortar.

Each mortar fires 4 templates of medium strength as a one-shot weapon, rather than the Griffon's single higher strength shot.

It makes little sense in game wise
It only makes little sense to you because you've got a different idea as to what the weapon is... because you haven't read the background and you haven't read the Warhammer 40,000 rules.

and would be quite needed downgrade on the BP weapons anyway.

I disagree, but your playtest milage may vary.

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 Post subject: Epic: Siege v1.13
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:18 pm 
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Quote: (Hena @ 25 Jun. 2009, 19:11 )

This isn't 40k. Their stats doesn't need to be copied. As for background, I have read IA5 thanks a lot and have it. It states that it can have additional sponsons to lob shells into enemy trenches. It's not an artillery piece what the Indirect Fire basicly means.

*shrug*

In Warhammer 40,000 it's like a Griffon Mortar but better... and... y'know... it's called a 'mortar'!

Quote: (Wikipedia @ 25 Jun. 2009, 19:11 )

A mortar is a muzzle-loading indirect fire weapon


Should we go change the Wikipedia page so that 'mortars' are no longer indirect firing weapons?




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 Post subject: Epic: Siege v1.13
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:28 pm 
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Hena is not trying to say that the Gorgon mortars do not "lob" their ammo in indirect flight paths. That's obvious. His point seems to be that Indirect Fire means more than an indirect flight path. It entails an FO organization and communication setup, means for fixing the location of the firing platform and so forth. Indirect flight paths can be accomplished by pretty much any projectile weapon. Yet, only dedicated organizations actually do shoot out-of-LOS.

The Gorgon lobbing grenades into enemy trenches feels like LOS fire observed and led from within the Gorgon, even though the shells eventually do follow indirect flights paths.


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 Post subject: Epic: Siege v1.13
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:33 pm 
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I should just chime in unhelpfully and say indirect mortar fire isn't nessecerily Epic indirect. After all tanks can fire indirect as so successully demonstrated on the golan hieghts by the Isreals (before they just took it). In Epic its the most common way of using the weapon tactically - is it used to engage targets you can see, or does it use whatver methods to engage unseen targets?
Here it is certainly lobbing shells into trenches, but still direct firing onto them as it were.

So it could be either :)

The only problem of indirect I can see is sitting there for a turn preping a close in garrisson, moving up turn 2 and assaulting turn 3, but is that too bad? If they were independant formations they would be cheerfully shelling stuff turn 3 after a turn 2 assault, but they are part of the infantry formations.

I think if they don't typically end up sitting around with nothing to do but shell they would be fine would indirect. If you can get tactics that allow them to be static after use then indirect might be to much.

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