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Marauders poll and review
No change 4%  4%  [ 1 ]
Decrease points (specify below) 36%  36%  [ 9 ]
Increase to DC2 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Lower save to 5+ and increase to DC2 24%  24%  [ 6 ]
Change speed to Fighter-Bomber 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Increase Bomb racks to 3BP 24%  24%  [ 6 ]
Other (specify below) 12%  12%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 25

Marauders poll and review
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Marauders poll and review
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:22 am 
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2DC, 6+ Save, 3BP  for 325pts?


Looks very interesting.


is it worth adding a tail TL HB as well

I'd say yes; If SG had the funds to update the tiny old bomber model, they'd give it a tail gun.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Marauders poll and review
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:24 am 
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The "tiny old" bomber model HAS a rear gun.
And it has 2 x TwinHeavyBolters 15cm AA5+ 360? firearc to represent them.




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Marauders poll and review
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:50 am 
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Yeah but it'd be made bigger. :D

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Marauders poll and review
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:55 am 
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In relation to the other SG flyers it is big enough.
SG Flyers have a smaller scale than ground troops.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Marauders poll and review
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:58 am 
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(BlackLegion @ Jul. 06 2007,10:24)
QUOTE
The "tiny old" bomber model HAS a rear gun.
And it has 2 x TwinHeavyBolters 15cm AA5+ 360? firearc to represent them.

Exactly. I'd also point out that the 'tiny old' model IS the current marauder model pictured in the rulebook, and currently on sale as the Marauder Bomber in the SG store. Some people might like the monstrosities from FW (and I agree they are nice models), but they are not the standard the marauder should be designed to, or used as any justification for increasing DC.

A big problem with the Marauder is that the barrage table ruins them. Once down to one plane the bomb payload drops not to 50%, but 25% effectiveness against tanks, and 34% against infantry.

250 points and up the bombload to 3BP and no other changes might be the way to go. The only effect this has is that it cancels out problems inherent in the current barrage table (this is assuming that 3BP's will go to AT5+ which is pretty assured). Ie one bomber will still be hitting infantry on 4's and armour on 5's (and two planes will place a single extra BM).  In other words, one marauder is still useful and half as good as two maraduers as it should be. Two marauders won't be any more effective than before (except for a single BM).

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Marauders poll and review
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:08 pm 
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Don't forget that the current Marauder has also a TwinLascannon 45cm AT4+/AA4+ FxF




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Marauders poll and review
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:10 pm 
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Some people might like the monstrosities from FW (and I agree they are nice models), but they are not the standard the marauder should be designed to, or used as any justification for increasing DC.


If the SG Marauder model were on the same scale as (most of) the rest of Epic, then it would be the size of the FW model...

Anyway, I don't think it should be DC-2 from a model perspective, but from a gaming and a background perspective.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Marauders poll and review
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:12 pm 
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(BlackLegion @ Jul. 06 2007,11:08)
QUOTE
Don't forget that the current Marauder has also 2 x Lascannon 45cm AT4+/AA4+ FxF

No I wasn't forgetting that, I was just referring to the bomb racks, should have made that clearer  :)

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Marauders poll and review
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:20 pm 
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Yes but you should include ther whole payload.

And one thing i noticed: Only the SM Hunter shoots as far as the Marauder does.
All other Flak is outranged by the Marauders TwinLascannon. Two marauders should guarantee a hit. So 1st round eleminating enemy Flak 2nd round bombing run coud be a valid tactic.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Marauders poll and review
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:21 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Jul. 06 2007,11:10)
QUOTE
Some people might like the monstrosities from FW (and I agree they are nice models), but they are not the standard the marauder should be designed to, or used as any justification for increasing DC.


If the SG Marauder model were on the same scale as (most of) the rest of Epic, then it would be the size of the FW model...

Anyway, I don't think it should be DC-2 from a model perspective, but from a gaming and a background perspective.

All the SG aircraft are reduced scale compared to other epic models. So might make sense to keep the balance between the hard metal SG models that are actually available, rather than some FW fluff and background that can change on a whim - causing problems like that witnessed with Tyranid warengines. SG Marauder model isn't as large as a SG T-Hawk or SG Vampire, and isn't bigger than a SG phoenix.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Marauders poll and review
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:25 pm 
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(BlackLegion @ Jul. 06 2007,11:20)
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Yes but you should include ther whole payload.

And one thing i noticed: Only the SM Hunter shoots as far as the Marauder does.
All other Flak is outranged by the Marauders TwinLascannon. Two marauders should guarantee a hit. So 1st round eleminating enemy Flak 2nd round bombing run coud be a valid tactic.

The point I made still holds, I wasn't forgetting the whole payload when I made it.

250 points is a hell of a lot to be spending on 2 AT4 shots. Can't see that being a viable tactic.

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Shadowsword
 Post subject: Marauders poll and review
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:34 pm 
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@Markconz
And don't forget the extra template for 4-7BP
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Marauders poll and review
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:38 pm 
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All the SG aircraft are reduced scale compared to other epic models. So might make sense to keep the balance between the hard metal SG models that are actually available, rather than some FW fluff and background that can change on a whim - causing problems like that witnessed with Tyranid warengines. SG Marauder model isn't as large as a SG T-Hawk or SG Vampire, and isn't bigger than a SG phoenix.


Not entirely.

The Vultures & Valkyries are larger than most of the other aircraft, while the Marine Landing Craft is at 'true' Epic scale.


All FW background has to be vetted and passed by the main design studio before publication, you want to complain about the Hierodule, complain to the core studio (And that includes Jervis).


The SG aircraft aren't even the same scale as each other, let alone being in scale with the rest of Epic. There's plenty of justification for DC-2.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Marauders poll and review
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:56 pm 
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(Shadowsword @ Jul. 06 2007,11:34)
QUOTE
@Markconz
And don't forget the extra template for 4-7BP

I wasn't!! Where did you think I was getting those stats from?  :O

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Markconz
 Post subject: Marauders poll and review
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:05 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Jul. 06 2007,11:38)
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There's plenty of justification for DC-2.

Possibly, but not so much from 'look at the models on the table and see how big they are' which is what matters more to me  :;):

Also let me add that I am not dead set on anything.

As far as I'm concerned there are 101 'good enough' solutions to this and the baneblade, and I just wish some one in command would hurry up and choose ONE of them!  :alien:  :confuse:

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