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Death Korps of Krieg v1.4
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.4
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:51 pm 
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Leman Russ Destroyer - I don't think this should have a Firefight value of 3+. Much more like 6+. Yes, it's more manoeuvrable than a Shadowsword, but the latter has a couple of short range, high fire rate weapons.


That'd be a Typo. It should have been 6+ as you suggest.


LR Conq. / Ext. / Vanq. - Similarly, these have been given Firefight values of 4+, but lack the sponson weapons of the Leman Russ. I think their Firefight value should be 5+.

Agreed on all three.

I think the Executioner Leman Russ could do with having it's FF attack as MW status ala a Land Speeder etc.


Leman Russ Demolisher - Shouldn't it be 2 x Plasma Cannon?

Yep, another typo. :)

Medusa - In the fluff, the self-propelled mortar (despite the name) is a direct fire weapon, specifically described as not lobbing its shells over enemy defences like the Griffon, but firing them straight into the defences. I view it just like a poor man's siege cannon (cf Stormsword). Off the top of my head, how about; Medusa Siege Gun, 30cm, 2BP, Lance and Ignore Cover?

I'd like to keep it as 3BP, but after checking yes you're right, Medusas are direct-fire weapons only (Note to self: Stop relying on the Collector's model section of the rulebook!). ignore cover could definitely be on the cards. Lance, possibly... would this be the first occurance of Lance outside of the Eldar lists?

Rough Riders - Maybe re-name them as Death Riders and give them a 5+ armour save to represent the bionic enhancements?

They'd need a points nudge but if appropriate then I don't see why not.

Are the new FW horses bionically enhanced however or has that piece of fluff been written out? They look strictly biological in nature to me so far and I've been close / seen photos of them a few times now.

Eathshaker Platform - Needs the Basilisk's note that Indirect may only be used when firing barrages, not when using AP or AT.

Isn't that note redundant via the letter of the rules anyway? Worth copying anyway I suppose.

Hydra Platform - Shouldn't the weapon be 2 x Twin Hydra Autocannon, 45cm, AP4+/AT5+/AA5+?

I do not make lots of typos... I swear a don't! :D

Gorgon - I think it's right in not having Thick Rear Armour in order to emphasize the frontal armour. However, I still think 4+ with Reinforced Armour (same as a Baneblade) is too high given its open-topped nature. Maybe 5+ RA. I also think 4BP is far too high for its mortars. An earthshaker cannon is only 1BP, remember. I think 2BP at most would be sufficient.

Aye I'd been thinking that 4BP was too high too. 2BP it will be in the next version.

As for 5+RA... the front armour is exceptional, even having rules to that extent in 40k iirc. It's a pity that Epic doesn't include arc-based armour saves (So then it could get 4+RA on the front, 4+ standard on the rear).

Possible room for a special rule in the note? It's the Krieg's most iconic vehicle after all.


Cheers Heavens, mucho help. :)

===========





As a note, if anyone is dissatisfied with the current fluff texts I've written, or would like to write some of their own for the entries that are currently blank, please feel free to lend a hand.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.4
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:01 pm 
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(J0k3r @ Nov. 09 2006,17:18)
QUOTE

(Evil and Chaos @ Nov. 09 2006,14:43)
QUOTE
Perhaps you could ask Warmaster Nice to provide a detailed conversion guide as his excellent ordinatus was based largely on existing bits...


Didn't his ordinatus use a genuine ordinatus truck & carriage as the base? The bits would need to be currently available.


looking at the image (taken a link to the image direct- hope thats ok)

Looks like there could be a recomended coversion in there after all.

It'd need a GW gun barrel however.

Possibly from the 40k range?

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Lion in the Stars
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.4
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 7:36 am 
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Depending on just how big a tube it is, you might be able to use an IG autocannon barrel (although the muzzle brake is VERY distinctive).

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ragnarok
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.4
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:57 pm 
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I have had some new thoughts on the idea of a SC bunker.

1)  Allow the "transpoted" units (if we give it transport) the ability to use their FF ability if the bunker can

2) I wouln't want a WE bunker to have more than 3 or 4 DC.  True it is where the commander lives, but unlike the commandersof other regiments, these guys are not cowards, so wont hide behind thick walls.

3) If a WE bunker does prove too easy to kill then what about having a bunker complex with each section being an AV.

The sectiones could include

A comms bunker - SC ability

then a certain number of extra bunkers, say 0-5 or 4-8

These bunkers could be
Block houses, each can hold x infantry, who can be in turn upgraded to storm troopers or snipers

AA turrets a hydra mounted on a bunker

Long ranged defense turrets, battle cannons on a bunker

Short ranged defense turrets, heavy bolters and flamers mounted on a bunker

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.4
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 7:28 pm 
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(Lion in the Stars @ Nov. 11 2006,06:36)
QUOTE
Depending on just how big a tube it is, you might be able to use an IG autocannon barrel (although the muzzle brake is VERY distinctive).

It'd have to be a metal piece I'm thinking, and not require too much cutting, if any.



(ragnarok @ Nov. 11 2006,11:57)
QUOTE
Bunker complex ideas.


While cool, I think those ideas would either be more suited to a scenario, or another list, as they're very firmly defensive in nature, which breaks from the list's short-ranged offensive spirit.




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.4
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:09 pm 
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Version 1.41-   (The Heavens to Betsy revision) :)

Leman Russ Destroyer FF corrected to 6+

Leman Russ Conquerer, Executioner & Thunderer FF changed to 5+

Leman Russ Demolisher typo corrected (Added 2x to plasma cannon entry)

Medusa stats rewritten to mesh with the background.

Hydra typo corrected (Now 2x shots)

Gorgon ?gains? Weak Rear Armour special rule. (The only Krieg army Special Rule so far).


Version 1.41


I've put in a temporary infantry-based Supreme Commander while I mull over whether or not to have a bunker-based SC (And dig to find out  whether the FW line-bunker is scheduled to stay in production).




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Honda
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.4
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:49 am 
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@E&C

Just a brief pop-in because I saw the note regarding the Lightning fighters and this is not intended to be a hijacking.

Brief History:

I chose the Lightning fighter for the Elysians because I needed something different than the stock IN Thunderbolt as the Elysians are quite dependant on their aerospace assets. I too started with the IA3 stats, but soon found all of their stats unmanageable. So over several sessions and a fair bit of discussion the team settled on:

Lightning Fighter:

Long Autocannon, 45cm, AP5+/AT6+/AA6+, Fixed Forward Arc
Lascannons, 30cm, AT4+/AA5+, Fixed Forward Arc

Lightning Strike Fighter:

Lascannons, 30cm , AT4+/AA5+, Fixed Forward Arc
2 x Hellstrike missiles, 45cm, AT4+, Fixed Forward Arc

Also if it is of interest, we got the Marauder Destroyer stats to:

3 x Twin Autocannons, 30cm, AP4+/AT5+, Fixed Forward Arc
Twin Heavy Bolters, 15cm, AA5+, -
2 x Assault Cannons, 15cm, AA5+, Rear 180
4 x Hellstrike missiles, 45cm, AT4+, Fixed Forward Arc

Note: The full stats can be found in the Elysian army list thread.

Starting sometime in December, we'll be kicking off a 6-12 play test period for the latest version which has been sent to SG for possible publication at some point. At least one ERC member has reviewed the list and given us a "proceed with caution".

So if that would help at all, feel free to use.

Honda popping out...




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.4
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:56 am 
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I was checking out the Elysian list earlier today actually. What a cool coincidence. :)

Obviously having differing stats on the same airframe without justification would be undesirable, I started thinking along similar lines as soon as I saw the Elysiashad the collector's aircraft.

I was concerned that the Elysian list has the fighter classes in groups of three, when the models are sold in twos, plus was it simply reliability that led you to drop the one-shot missiles, etc?

*peace, out*



EDIT:

You might be interested to know that I own a 40k-scale 2000pt+ army of Elysians...  some of my first posts on Epicomms were me looking around for your list. :)




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Honda
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.4
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:35 am 
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I was checking out the Elysian list earlier today actually. What a cool coincidence.


:)


Obviously having differing stats on the same airframe without justification would be undesirable, I started thinking along similar lines as soon as I saw the Elysiashad the collector's aircraft.


Oddly enough, I found out about that the hard way. I had started along a slightly different path and pretty soon had gotten all types of suggestions on "this pattern and that pattern" as it related to T-bolts, and that was about the time I decided to go with the Lightnings as other than IA3, no one had penned stats to them yet.

So, I feel your pain, however, if it makes sense to use the same stats, then as I said earlier, they have a "proceed with caution" stamp on them for the time being, which ain't bad.


I was concerned that the Elysian list has the fighter classes in groups of three, when the models are sold in twos, plus was it simply reliability that led you to drop the one-shot missiles, etc?


Hmm...my packs came with three lightnings in them, but that wasn't the reason I went with three. In our playtests, the two flight formation just got killed/supressed too easily and since the Elysians don't have a lot of heavy hitting toys, they needed them to stay around longer and either keep enemy fighters away from their ground units or be able to prosecute more than one ground attack. So we tried them a couple different ways, but three ship flights ended up being the best fit. Also there was the precedent of the Tau three ship Barracuda flights.


*peace, out*


Peace, bro'



EDIT:

You might be interested to know that I own a 40k-scale 2000pt+ army of Elysians... ?


That...is...too... :cool:

I retain great aspirations to someday have a 40K Elysian force...though it may end up just being 3 x vultures and a lot of converted Cadians and Sentinels.

I am a total Elysian groupie.




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.4
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 12:03 pm 
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According to the website they're sold in twos... I'll have to order a pack and see what I get.

I guess I've gotten used to the SG system of writing the rules for the model packs, seems fairer on the buyers really.


My old Elysian blog: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15284

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vanvlak
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.4
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 12:24 pm 
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E&C, as you may know, I don't frequent the rules part of the fora that much - I just occasionally grab an army list to see what I can convert  :p
I've just downloaded your latest DK list, and - well, hats off! Lovely work, with pics and even a list of GW models to use! Not to mention the modifications log. Superb! All you need is the Gorgon conversion manual added :D

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.4
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:12 pm 
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Aye I'm rather happy with it so far. :)

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Heavens To Betsy
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.4
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:23 pm 
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Lance, possibly... would this be the first occurance of Lance outside of the Eldar lists?


Well, not really, since you already had that ability listed for the Leman Russ Destroyer, which I thought was a really good idea. So good, that I thought I'd nick it.

I think it's too useful an ability to only allow the pointy-ears a monopoly on it.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.4
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:20 pm 
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lol I forgot that I'd given it to the Destroyer (Makes sense to me to give it to the tank-hunter which is lacking in other respects).

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.4
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:51 pm 
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New version 1.42:


Adopted the aircraft rules from the Elysian Drop Troops army list.

Added a few more unit descriptions.


Version 1.42



EDIT: I'm still not happy with the SC... it just seems too bland at the moment... but maybe that's how a Krieg SC should be!




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