My predicament is this I am told not to create new units, but use only the units that have been used by other lists that have come before hand. I do not have final say, the Imperial Guard AM has final say. I have also been told to balance the list and and replace the OP in it like spamming the Teleport, which I replaced with Self Planetfall.
If I hold true to what I have been told what to do then I must use what has come before, not alter it, and possibly just rename it. I propose a general poll the options I have found from the various list and see which of these everyone think fits best.
I thik 6 candidates should be put forward the polll.
1: my All terrain LV that comes complete with the light AA gun. I would like to make it all on 1 base making it easier to use, transport, will be able to then transported on a Valkyrie taking up 2 spaces,and is thematic. You could have it on 2 bases, but you will than have to make it drop capable for another 25 point for the 4 guns and their transport. You can rename it an Elysian light Gun tractor and Sabre platform if you want at a cost of 100 points for 4. Give it the same stats as the Sabre
2:The Sabre Platform which will have the only transport I could find for it in the lists, as you do not want Entrenchments. Therefore based on the Tallarn 0.8 list we inlcude the Chimera as the towing vehicle. 4 x Sabres and 4 x Chimeras for 175 points. I can forsee problems with this, choice however. A squadron of 4 Predator Anhihlators with 4 range 45 AT4+, and 8 range 45cm AT5+ weapons shoots at the Sabres and Chimeras, nad because they are 2 different unit types elects under the rules (as they are allowed) to shoot only the Sabres. The sabres get no -1 to hit from the Chimeras, they get no cover save, or any save at all. Once you destroy the Sabres, the formation breaks automatically and can then be hunted down, and be BM'd to death. I am not a fan of this. especially as the Tallarn list is a ground attack list.
3: Just the Sabre which is not towed at all. Reduce the cost down dramatically as the Sabre does not move much, has no armour save, can be shot at by every weapon in range, and has a short 30cm ranged weapon. So I recommend 6 Sabres for 125 points, or 5 Sabres for 100 points. They wold obviiously have the drop capability. This option is manageable, but they are still hopelessly in adequate, easily destroyed,eat up precious points.
4: The only other list that has an inbuilt mobile/towed AA weapons platform. Even though it is another ground assault/seige army is the Baran Siege masters list. I could have used the Mirelli Skyraiders list, but they use Emtrenchments. So we use the Blitzen LV, immobile and has no save, uses a TL Flak Autocannon with a range of 60cm which I think is a tad to long for the Elysian list. They are towed into battle by 4 Bruenhiilde gun tractors. Another LV but thes move only 15cm and have a 6+ save. Armed with a range 30cm Heavy Stubber. I am not a fan of this one either. Not thematic, the guntractor is slow, but it doees solve the problen of separately targeting the Blitzen only as both are LV. Ths option would have 4 of each unit for 150 points.
5: As recommended by moredakka a while back, we allow a variant of the Taurus Venator which has a light AA gun mounted on one of the Venators in a squadron. You could still have it at range 30cm, and all te weak stats of both the Taurus Venator (LV, 6+save), and the short range weapons abilities of the Sabres weapons platform, but it could then be air transportable via Sky Talons. This one I do not mind at all, as you are limiting the AA mount/variant to one per squadron, to reduce the spamming. It also has the protection of the other Taurus, so can not normally be targeted separately, by one weapon system. Ths would still maintain the same points cost as is in the list currently. Unfortunately this means making a change to an established unit/formation, and slightly breaks the rule that have been set down, (even if you rename the variant).
6: I am not a fan of the last option at all. However I put it in for completeness and to encompass everyones views. I believe the list needs some form of light ground based AA unit, however others might think differently. Therefore the last option for the poll is to not include any form of ground based AA uniit. This in my view seriously weakens the list. Like the Dark Eldar list, before it gained the Tormentor class Titan with its short ranged splinter cannon AA5+, it relied completely on the aircraft. If you did not include them, you were doomed to all your formatoins being broken then wiped out by BMs - painfully.
The Elysian list has infantry, lots of units with no save or very poor saves, and units that can not get a cover save. When facing tournament based armies like Edlar (firestorms, Nightwings and Phoenix Fighter bombers), Feral Orks (Wyrdboyz able to be added to Orkasaurus - Warbands and Wild Boyz, upto 3 Steam Gargants, madboyz, Junkabrigades, and boarboyz mobs. Each with a range 45cm MW5+AA. Normal Orks with their cheap Dakka Jets and Flak Wagons. Tau with their Skyrays and Baracuda fighters. Marines with range 60cm Hunters, and their plaethora of fighter aircraft options like Thunderbolts, Sky Talons, and so on. The Elysians Aircraft are going to be gone by turn 2 if you are lucky.
I know they are designed to be a light force who holds out until turn 3 (up to 5) and relies soley on their ability to drop 'enmasse and surprise the enemy. Hopefully hold some ground with smaller sized companies that have shorter ranged weapons, and then get some of their forces relocated if needed by their precious Valkyries and Sky talons which also die easily. If all you have is the Lightnings and Lightning Strike Fighters, then the army is doomed to fail in most of their games just on the quality, weapons range, and manouverability, and special rules like fearless, ATSKNF, etc of their opponents in most armies.
I am not sure if I can set up the pole with my level of access to the website, but I think RugII can. If so I would like the 6 optons to be made available with just the number of units you want to field, their price and their stats so others can make a decision. I know the outcome will not be the final word and the Imperial Guard AM will have final say, but hopefully it might influence the decision.
_________________ 6mm wargaming is just like 25mm wargaming with more units fitting on the same size table. Thus bigger games to get lost in and avoid the hassles of everyday living, and offerings for the dice gods.
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